Author Topic: SSS, what can we expect from it?  (Read 31892 times)

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wilch23

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Re: SSS, what can we expect from it?
« Reply #30 on: Jan 29, 2016, 08:03 AM »
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Kung tutuusin mas maganda pay out nito kaysa whole life insurance, lalo na pag kinosider mo na 1/3 lang ng hulog ang sayo at 2/3 sa employer mo. Yun nga lang di ka naman pwede kumuha dito ng malakihan so ganun lang talaga ang matatanggap mo sa huli.

I agree.

While it is true the pension is a pittance, it is also true that it is a good investment if only bec almost 2/3 of the contribution is given by your employer.

Since maliit ang contribution ni member, how can he expect a large pay out.
The culprit should be the SSS manager falling way behind in earnings generation vis-a-vis inflation. But we have to consider also that they haev to be prudent and not too aggressive in their investments.
Bottom line is it is still better than fix income instruments.
« Last Edit: Jan 29, 2016, 08:05 AM by wilch23 »

wilch23

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Re: SSS, what can we expect from it?
« Reply #31 on: Jan 29, 2016, 08:13 AM »
Collection is a problem since it started.
How bad is it? We don't know except for what SSS tells us.
Audit by REAL external private firm?
Be ready for a subterranean city of worms!

bajoyjoy

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Re: SSS, what can we expect from it?
« Reply #32 on: Jan 29, 2016, 09:02 AM »
^Maybe in the past government salaries are quite LOW but not anymore because of the new laws like salary standardization law and other special laws. 
but SSLs only happen once every blue moon. hintayin muna nilang mapag-iwanan ulit bago sila magkukumahog humabol sa sweldo sa private. at sa lower grades lang talaga ung nagiging competitive rates, pag sa supervisor level and up na, milya-milya na ang agwat even after govt salary adjustments.

incidentally, i just saw in the news, hindi pa rin magka-ayos ang bicam sa govt salary rate hike bill.. and one hitch yata is yun ngang sinasabi ni wilch na scheme for retired AFP personnel, na wala na sa serbisyo pero mag-aadjust ang pension based on the current salary ng kanilang last position. very clever.

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Did you know that public school teachers receives MORE PAY than their counterparts?
This is true, but only because demand for public teachers is high and supply is low right now. again, in our country, teachers are looked down upon so only noble ones choose to be teachers, lalo na kung public teacher, parang 70 students per class ang hahawakan mo buong maghapon. To stop them from leaving and accepting yaya jobs abroad, and to attract others into the profession, they had to get competitive salary rates din.
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Let us go to the judiciary, public attorneys receives a decent pay similar to private lawyers.  Prosecutors, clerk of courts, judges, and justices receives SUPERIOR PAY than some of the lawyers working for legal firms.
you are talking about BASIC PAY. yes basic pay has improved for them, but as we all know sa private, they always find ways to "disguise" real compensation and emoluments, for tax purposes. for private firm lawyers, basic pay lang ang declared, but its really the non-salary benefits that spell the difference, minsan 2x or 3x ng basic ang mga yun.

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Bakit hindi ako nagtrabaho?

1. gusto ko sana pero kailangan ng koneksiyon na matibay.
2. kapag may koneksiyon, kailangan "puppet" ka ng padrino mo.
3. mahirap magtagal sa gobyerno kung may labag sa batas ang ipapagawa sa iyo.
4. may magandang sweldo at benepisyo nga pero wala naman "resources" para magawa mo ng maayos ang trabaho kaya akala natin tamad sila sa trabaho at naka tanga lang ang mga taga gobyerno pero sa totoo lang walang CAPEX kasi.
5. walang maayos na patakaran at policies and procedures.  Kung may kapit --- pwede ang short cut.  kung wala --- red tape ang dadaanan mo.  Pati taga gobyerno dumadanas rin ng red tape.

no. 1 and 2--> MYTH. i've worked in 3 govt institutions, WALA AKONG KONEKSYON O BACKER WHATSOEVER. but yes, everytime uninformed people find out i work/ed at xxx  they ALWAYS say "may backer ka noh?". I pity them.  :hihi:

in those offices na napasukan ko, mabibilang mo lang ang may koneksyon. may ganitong paniniwala dahil ang mga supposed backer ang mahilig mag-press release na "ipinasok ko si xxxx" etc na parang sila ang nagpa-exam, interview at pumirma ng appointment papers. but these people are inconsequential to the selection process unless sila talaga ung nasa selection board. nagpa-submit lang ng resume sa HR, sya na ang nagpasok?  :hihi:

of all your reasons above, its clear GSIS pension never figured into your decision making, because its really just incidental that GSIS pension system is MORE SOUND than SSS. when you say unfair, its like gsis was favored more than the sss.  the disparity of these 2 laws (GSIS and SSS charters) can only be cured by the legislators and thats what they failed to do when the bill was veto'ed because they did not study the numbers properly (serge osmena has admitted this). parang naging "dare" ung bill, akala nila makakalusot dahil eleksyon na at matatakot ang administrasyon na mawala ang boto para kay Mar kaya ppayagan nila. Pnoy called their bluff because what these epals failed to consider is, si Mar ang matatalo sa eleksyon hindi si Pnoy. Pnoy has nothing to lose anymore, he probably want his projects and agenda to continue kung manalo ng LP pero kung hindi, e di hindi.






« Last Edit: Jan 29, 2016, 09:13 AM by bajoyjoy »

bajoyjoy

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Re: SSS, what can we expect from it?
« Reply #33 on: Jan 29, 2016, 09:37 AM »
I don't quite agree. They may have a right to give it out. They are also responsible for making sure the fund doesn't go kaput.

Based on the contributions, even with voluntary members (very small % lang), much more than half of the money with the SSS is govt money, that is from the SEED Capital and the mandated (FORCED) contribution of the employers (indirect TAXATION).
There is also additional govt funding from time to time to help sustain the fund. So hindi naman yata private fund eto, quasi private only.
Really more public than private.
I just meant SSS not congress/senate is in the best position to say if the proposal is sustainable or not. SSS said no, but maybe a lower amount. The lawmakers insisted on the 2k like its their money to give away.

but yes any money that goes into any govt entity automatically becomes public money and for public purpose. we'd think lawmakers would know this, but....


« Last Edit: Jan 29, 2016, 09:39 AM by bajoyjoy »

jmces

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Re: SSS, what can we expect from it?
« Reply #34 on: Jan 29, 2016, 09:41 AM »
@bajoyjoy you don't know anyone working on the same gov't offices before you joined? your family is unknown to them? btw those someone that usually sends the resume to HR does not necessarily mean they just give your resume, usually it's more like they will ask the hiring boss and go to HR to process the formalities :D

bajoyjoy

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Re: SSS, what can we expect from it?
« Reply #35 on: Jan 29, 2016, 09:58 AM »
^ On SSS collection efficiency

As of March 2015 --- SSS reported 32.5 million members with over 920,000 employers.

Last financial statement 2014, SSS reported contributions of 120.650 Billion pesos.

A quick analysis --- IF WE ASSUME A MINIMUM COMBINE PAYMENT OF 550 PESOS PER MONTH FOR A 5K MONTHLY SALARY CREDIT,   32.5 million x 550 pesos = 17.875 BILLION PESOS PER MONTH IN CONTRIBUTION

for 12 months the total theoretically must be 214.5 BILLION PESOS.  Compare it to total contribution collected of 120.650 Billion.

Missing Difference in supposedly 100% collection efficiency was 93.85 BILLION.   

What is the collection efficiency of SSS then?  it is about 43.75% ONLY. Horrendous isn't it?  They missed to collect 56% of total contribution just in ONE YEAR.

Tapos people in SSS needs the understanding of pensioners ?  People need to understand PNOY kaya walang 2,000 pesos pay hike?

Kaya pala ayaw ng SSS at gobyerno sa third party independent audit at baka sa ilang dekada ng operasyon nila (more than 50 years) lumitaw ang totoo na TRILLIONS na ang losses.

Next I'm going to compare their operating expense compared to other government pension funds.  Things are too dark already.

I wanted to follow yung computations pero nawiwindang talaga ako pag madami na akong numbers na nababasa, hahaha... but im inclined to believe the numbers are dismal.

but on the issue of collection efficiency per se... i'd compare it to BIR. which among the taxpayers are the BIR's bread and butter? the wage earners-- kasi bago mo pa mahawakan ang sweldo mo, nauna na ang BIR na kumuha ng share nya. captured taxpayers sila unlike corporate taxpayers (lalo nung before henares era) daming tax shields and deductibles na pwedeng magamit para maliit ang taxable income nila. so tax collection efficiency mas mataas dun sa captured taxpayers (wage earners). Same with GSIS, share muna nila bago mapunta sa tao ung sweldo nya. For SSS, its not the case dahil marami nga ang members that are not in the formal employment sector, marami din ang hindi nagtuloy gaya ng nasabi ni dreamwalker. i have an sss number myself but dont pay any. marami din kumuha lang ng sss para sa ID... and marami ring balahurang private employers na nagdededuct ng sss pero hindi nagreremit. when payment process is not automatic or convenient, collection efficiency will surely fail. hindi naman yan meralco na pupuntahan ka sa bahay kung hindi nakabayad.

bajoyjoy

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Re: SSS, what can we expect from it?
« Reply #36 on: Jan 29, 2016, 10:20 AM »
@bajoyjoy you don't know anyone working on the same gov't offices before you joined? your family is unknown to them?
NO. i only have 2 relatives in the government, i worked as a project based contractual (not considered as employee so i didnt include this) in a different branch of their office. i never got a permanent post sa office nila. i moved to 3 different offices AND I HAVE NO RELATIONS TO ANYONE PERSONALLY. ung 1st permanent position ko wala akong kilala, but nung nagreport nako dun ko nakita ung clasmate ko nung college, sabay kami ng 1st day of work. ung 2nd, may classmate din ako and sya pinagsubmit ko ng resume. ang kabilin-bilinan sakin, dont ever mention me in your interview. the selection board is headed by aaaa, and she's the aunt of my ex. does that count as backer, nega ang effect sa chance kong makuha? the last one, i have tons of classmates (college and law) all over, but none of them knew i was applying until i got in or bumped into them months after my 1st day.

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btw those someone that usually sends the resume to HR does not necessarily mean they just give your resume, usually it's more like they will ask the hiring boss and go to HR to process the formalities :D
isama na kita dun sa people i pity because of their ignorance of the selection process. :hihi: but maybe we're talking about different govt institutions, hindi kasi ako nag-attempt mag-apply sa mga pangit ang reputasyon, pugad ng mga politicians and grafters. i go for good reputation, always.

kung may kilala kang ganyan ang press release sayo, wag kang maniwala. those who are really in the position to wield such power WILL NEVER DISCLOSE TO ANYONE that they do that. and those who so proudly claim they are responsible for that person getting in (ibinulong na kita! echosero!), in reality walang kinalaman sa buong proseso, sya lang siguro nag-stapler ng papeles. lol

maliban na lang siguro sa mga highly-confidential positions like staff ng mismong head ng office, yun talga mga handpicked nila pero co-term lang din.  anyway OT na....



jmces

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Re: SSS, what can we expect from it?
« Reply #37 on: Jan 29, 2016, 10:30 AM »
@bajoyjoy well good for you, im happy that not all govt agencies are the same. i am not ignorant because i saw it first hand, and you are correct, this office is one of the playgrounds of politicians and people are dying to get in, but most of the applicants, even fully qualified, have their resumes sitting on the desks, while those who just graduated without the necessary credentials are being hired as advised by the padrinos. one more thing aside from the gsis benefits gov't employees while maybe not everyone have access to the previously known fund as the pork barrell, which will be given in forms of bonuses, gifts, or whatsoever term they use. personally i think benefit wise, govt employees are superior than their private sector counterparts.

bajoyjoy

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Re: SSS, what can we expect from it?
« Reply #38 on: Jan 29, 2016, 11:30 AM »
@bajoyjoy well good for you, im happy that not all govt agencies are the same. i am not ignorant because i saw it first hand, and you are correct, this office is one of the playgrounds of politicians and people are dying to get in, but most of the applicants, even fully qualified, have their resumes sitting on the desks, while those who just graduated without the necessary credentials are being hired as advised by the padrinos.
yes if there is no merit-based recruitment system most likely bulok ang agency na yan. buti na rin siguro hindi napapasok ang mga mahuhusay pero napupulitika na mga applicants sa mga ganyan, kakainin lang sila ng sistema. for the newbies kasi, tutal bulok na tingin nyo sa akin dahil sa reputasyon ng office ko, e hindi na rin ako magmamalinis at makipagsabayan na rin sa pagnanakaw.

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one more thing aside from the gsis benefits gov't employees while maybe not everyone have access to the previously known fund as the pork barrell, which will be given in forms of bonuses, gifts, or whatsoever term they use. personally i think benefit wise, govt employees are superior than their private sector counterparts.
this is very surprising to me jmces. i've always thought mataas ang sweldo sa private, pati na rin benefits, minsan umaabot ng 18-20th month bonus, car plan and transpo, etc... except for the few na abusadong agencies like mwss na 24 months bonus yata yun at kung ano-ano pang natatanggap na extra kada buwan...

so does it mean pinapasiklaban lang ako ng friend ko sa private sector na kung pumustura ng bonggang designer clothes, bags and watches? Pampalubag loob iniisip ko na lng, may kino-cover up itong kalungkutan kaya kung ano-anong luho ang binibili... hahahaha bitter pa more! :rofl:

bauer

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Re: SSS, what can we expect from it?
« Reply #39 on: Jan 29, 2016, 01:25 PM »
sir bauer do you think its still wise to invest in things like this? seems like the endowement plan of sunlife.  what is the safety net in case hsbc defaults?

^ A hybrid insurance + investment product is not wise (at least what is offered in our country but I do not know if it is good in other country).  Theoretically speaking, HSBC is a private company, of course if HSBC defaults, there are no safety nets.  Remember, an insurance is a PROMISE.
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bauer

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Re: SSS, what can we expect from it?
« Reply #40 on: Jan 29, 2016, 01:35 PM »
Its not correct to assume that all of the 32.5M members are paying members, madaming members na meron sss number pero wala naman trabaho and ung iba eh ofw na or nag migrate na at hindi nagtutuloy ng hulog.  Like sa semicon industry or epza madaming babaeng empleyado pag na retrench or nag asawa sila hindi na makakapag patuloy ng hulog and they are still considered sss members. So sa ganitong sitwasyon ano ibabayad sa sss kung wala ngang trabaho o ayaw naman mag contribute voluntarily. or puwede din mapunta sa govt sector at sa gsis na maghulog

^ Oh I am sorry you are not familiar with an audit procedure.   How do you measure collection efficiency?  SSS reported those numbers (32.5 million members)
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bauer

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Re: SSS, what can we expect from it?
« Reply #41 on: Jan 29, 2016, 01:39 PM »
but SSLs only happen once every blue moon. hintayin muna nilang mapag-iwanan ulit bago sila magkukumahog humabol sa sweldo sa private. at sa lower grades lang talaga ung nagiging competitive rates, pag sa supervisor level and up na, milya-milya na ang agwat even after govt salary adjustments.
 

^ Didn't you know there were SSL 1, SSL 2, and SSL3?  Congress is talking about SSL 4 already.  Mabilis kaya sila pagdating sa sweldo at benepisyo.
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bauer

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Re: SSS, what can we expect from it?
« Reply #42 on: Jan 29, 2016, 01:40 PM »
Collection is a problem since it started.
How bad is it? We don't know except for what SSS tells us.
Audit by REAL external private firm?
Be ready for a subterranean city of worms!

^LOL
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bauer

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Re: SSS, what can we expect from it?
« Reply #43 on: Jan 29, 2016, 01:47 PM »
 
This is true, but only because demand for public teachers is high and supply is low right now. again, in our country, teachers are looked down upon so only noble ones choose to be teachers, lalo na kung public teacher, parang 70 students per class ang hahawakan mo buong maghapon. To stop them from leaving and accepting yaya jobs abroad, and to attract others into the profession, they had to get competitive salary rates din.you are talking about BASIC PAY. yes basic pay has improved for them, but as we all know sa private, they always find ways to "disguise" real compensation and emoluments, for tax purposes. for private firm lawyers, basic pay lang ang declared, but its really the non-salary benefits that spell the difference, minsan 2x or 3x ng basic ang mga yun.
 

^CHED 2010-2011 graduates data reported that about 60,000 completed education & teacher's training courses.

Manila Bulletin reported that DEPED to address shortages in teachers will HIRE 33,000 in 2014.

2011 pa lang kalahati na sobra sa 2014 hiring plan.  I do not think there is a LACK OF SUPPLY.  Do you have some data?
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IGX

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Re: SSS, what can we expect from it?
« Reply #44 on: Jan 29, 2016, 01:50 PM »
^ A hybrid insurance + investment product is not wise (at least what is offered in our country but I do not know if it is good in other country).  Theoretically speaking, HSBC is a private company, of course if HSBC defaults, there are no safety nets.  Remember, an insurance is a PROMISE.

Thanks for your input sir bauer. 

 


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  • mardaf1026: Hi po sa mga Investors, looking for adding more savings?
    Feb 22, 2018, 01:53 AM
  • Diosa57: Hello newbie po.  Tanong ko po kung ano po ang kailangan Na documents para ibenta po yung property na minana ng father ko at elder sister nya. A small parcel of land .  Yung title ay nasa pangalan nilang dalawa. Yung sister nya ay nakatira sa ibang bansa, may asawa at may 5 anak sila.  Namatay yung sister ng Tatay ko 6 years ako na po. Gusto na pong ibenta ng Tatay ko yung property at payag naman po yung asawa at mga anak ng sister nya. Ano po ang dapat hingiin na documents sa kanila para maibenta yung property at para madaling mailagay sa pangalan ng buyer yung titulo na malinis .  Maraming Salamat po.
    Feb 17, 2018, 05:58 PM