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Business and Communication (Grammar 101 atbp.)

r4k3t_m4n · 206 · 23391

r4k3t_m4n

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Let's face it guys, the Philippines is among the most sought-after investment and business satellite hubs in Asia. This is primarily because of our many exceptional work  acumen, led by our world-class English communication skills.

But just like any professional athlete, we business professionals have no choice but continually hone our work-specific and communications know-hows to remain competent and effective in our day to day activities.

I now intend this post for all PMT members to use as a venue for inquiring and sharing answers pertinent to grammar, composition, and other English communication-related queries, concerns, and discussions.

Tanung at share na your thoughts guys. Thanks!

 :pc:


r4k3t_m4n

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Reply #1 on: Jun 15, 2013, 08:07 PM
Above all else, clarity is important in all business writing and speaking. Strive hard to always use simple words, phrases and sentences as much as possible as this strategy works across all audiences.

However, people of a similar group or industry, it's suggested that they speak their own "language" (e.g., jargons and other terms familiar to the group) as it facilitates communication. For instance, when an engineer is talking with or writing to fellow engineers, it is better for them to use engineering terms as they can readily understand them, aside from saving time. Same with professionals within the same industry or work circle, use terms that all of you can clearly understand.

The bottomline: We open our mouth to speak, write our thoughts on paper, or type words in a word processor primarily because of one key purpose: TO BE UNDERSTOOD.

So let's try our best that we speak and write in a manner that our target audience will understand what we have said, which can be easily achieved if we speak or write in clear, simple, understandable words.

 :pc:


r4k3t_m4n

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Reply #2 on: Jun 16, 2013, 01:16 PM
She graduated college?

Graduation season had just passed us like a blink of an eye and we're now at the start of the new school year. Having taught English for several years here and abroad, I always make it a point to help people correct unseen (READ: NEGLECTED) errors on both word usage and constructions, and one of which is the use of the word "graduate".

While the "...Graduated college" construction is becoming more common, majority of grammarians argue that it is wrong. Here are the correct ways of using the verb "graduated":

Students are graduated from a school; Juan graduated from UP.

A school performs the act of graduating a student; UP graduated thousands of students last April.

If you are overparticular about trivial details (just like me), you can also say this:

A student was graduated from a school. Juan was graduated from UP.

So there goes the correct usage of the verb "Graduate", I do hope this helps you guys in finally correcting this long incorrectly-used word in the future.

Congrats to all new Filipino graduates (and the thousands of schools that graduated them).


 :watchuthink:


r4k3t_m4n

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Reply #3 on: Jun 17, 2013, 12:23 AM
Simplicity elicits Clarity

As much as possible, always use simple verb forms such as present, past, and future tense (write, wrote, will write). This ensures that your message will be understood the way you want your audience to understand you.

Refrain from using complicated verb tenses (such as will have written, might have been writing) that your audience may not have really perfected using/understanding despite years of studying and using English.

For example, it is better to use "Will you attend the conference?" instead of saying "Will you be planning on attending the conference?"

Likewise, use "If you have questions..." rather than "Should you find you have questions...."

It really takes some practice, but if you're always aware of the need and benefit of communicating in the simplest way possible, it will, sooner or later, be second nature to you.

 :hello:

What is in seasons, seconds, centuries and minutes but not in decades, years or days?

,N, ɹǝʇʇǝl ǝɥ⊥ :ɹǝʍsu∀


vicces

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Reply #4 on: Jun 17, 2013, 09:08 AM
meron na tayong grammar police, one with an actual license.. :yehey:

Quote
Refrain from using complicated verb tenses (such as will have written, might have been writing) that your audience may not have really perfected using/understanding despite years of studying and using English.
but to clarify, the phrases in italics are NOT wrong, just complicated (parang lovelife ko lang :hihi: )..

some more questions...connected sa "graduated"... when I was in high school about 2 decades ago, I learned from someone who's english i trust, that its wrong to say: I graduated from AMA and took up Business Administration.. dapat I took Business Administration ... I have used the latter since then, pero mas madami pa rin ang gumagamit ng took up, isip ko tuloy baka ako ang mali..  :bahalaka:

ano ba pagkakaiba/mas tama:

In regard...
With regards.... ==> with "s" or w/o "s"? kelan meron, kelan wala?

about vs. with
something wrong about ...
something wrong with ...

with vs. to
in relation with...
in relation to...

what are the rules on the proper usage of I, me, myself.

 :thankyou:


yllor

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Reply #5 on: Jun 17, 2013, 11:25 AM
lagot ako dito.. TH pa naman ako mag-english :D


pilyong_husband

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Reply #6 on: Jun 17, 2013, 03:10 PM
Don't english me.. I am panic :D


r4k3t_m4n

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Reply #7 on: Jun 17, 2013, 04:37 PM
...but to clarify, the phrases in italics are NOT wrong...
...that its wrong to say: I graduated from AMA and took up Business Administration.. dapat I took Business Administration ... I have used the latter since then, pero mas madami pa rin ang gumagamit ng took up, isip ko tuloy baka ako ang mali..
ano ba pagkakaiba/mas tama:
In regard...
With regards.... ==> with "s" or w/o "s"? kelan meron, kelan wala?
about vs. with
something wrong about ...
something wrong with ...
with vs. to
in relation with...
in relation to...
what are the rules on the proper usage of I, me, myself.

Hi @vicces, thanks for the response!  :)

I'll try my best to address the grammatical concerns that you've raised one post at a time (due to some work-related constraints on my part). Let me reiterate, however, that I will try my best to shed some light on the issue(s) raised, not to directly, authoritatively give you the correct answers because language is perpetually-evolving, aggravated by a plethora of culture-/region-specific and time-constrained usages (remember American vs. British English, archaic vs. modern, colloquial vs. formal, etc.?). In other words, what is correct now can be slightly correct or even unacceptable later. Besides, I consider this as a forum to share what we know based on our skills and experience on communication, grammar, and the like. Anyone is invited to rebutt or raise objections or share personal opinions on the topics as long as they are thoroughly explained (it's a free country, hehe). Basta let's make everything constructive so that this thread can last long and be able to help PMT members in the area of communication in the workplace and beyond.

Yup, the italics are made to differentiate/highlight the words, phrases, and sentences in focus or given as examples to illustrate a point.

took up vs. took

As what I always do when in doubt, it's best to first simply things to see the clearer picture, and then proceed (with lesser caution). For the record, I find nothing grammatically wrong with using took up and took because both are verbs that convey almost similar meanings (depending on the context they're being used). "To take" (which has many meanings, but when used in this sample given) means "to get, have, receive, understand, etc.," while "to take up" means "to devote effort to something, learn, undertake, etc." And since took up actually originates from took (to take), it is inevitable for the two terms to have much relation in use and form.

However, I personally don't use the phrase "took up (+ course)" because it's not a term that's directly related with a college course (remember the rule on simplicity and clarity?). Instead, I just use "study" (as in I studied AB Psychology) which is the best, simplest and most appropriate word to use for this case. This is only my point of view and I always admire those who can use complicated words but still are able to convey their message clearly. But again, when in doubt, it best not to use any more frills or experiment or show-off that one knows some idiomatic expression or complicated usage but end up being misunderstood or producing grammatically problematic sentences.

I wrote a letter. I sang a song. I ate dinner. I love beer. 

I'll address your other queries in another post...work mode muna uli.

BTW, I think it's far better to have a complicated love-life than having none at all.

 :watchuthink:


r4k3t_m4n

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Reply #8 on: Jun 17, 2013, 05:19 PM
lagot ako dito.. TH pa naman ako mag-english

Wag namang TH hehe, lahat nman tau nagsimula somewhere.

It's like going to a medical doctor when one is sick, or asking an architect to design a house or building, ganun din for this thread, everyone is invited to ask questions or clarify something related to grammar and communications.  :watchuthink:

At hindi lang nman ako ang dapat sumagot dito, I just thought of creating a thread that can be a venue for everyone to discuss these things, since communication (and grammar) is very much part of our lives as professionals in our various specializations and careers.

 :cool2:


r4k3t_m4n

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Reply #9 on: Jun 17, 2013, 09:51 PM
ano ba pagkakaiba/mas tama:
In regard...
With regards.... ==> with "s" or w/o "s"? kelan meron, kelan wala?

Regards vs. Regard

The correct phrase is "in (or with) regard to" such as when you say:

"In regard to your request for a salary increase, I think you must refrain first from being late almost everyday!:harhar:

It is also correct to say "as regards" such as when introducing a topic.

As I've mentioned before, the above phrases also fall within my list of non-simple terms and phrases. Business communication typically involve important thoughts and purposes, so I'd rather use the simpler, more concise similar options such as regarding, about, concerning, with, in, etc.

 That memo is in regard to the no OT policy dated April 2. (correct)

 That memo concerns the no OT policy dated April 2. (better)

"Regards" is also used to convey good wishes and to express respect and even affection.

I hope the above discussion had been helpful.

...Best regards,

r4k3t_m4n

  :pc:


vicces

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Reply #10 on: Jun 17, 2013, 10:26 PM
Thanks r4k3tm4n! yeh, i would want to use simple words too especially when dealing with or writing to clients or ordinary individuals, but peers/colleagues are  so hung up with these old formalities (most are actually obsolete/archaic) in language. they insist on using words like whereby, whereof, whereas, wheretofore etc... naknampoodle, parang laging may nawawala, puro "where" ang sinasabi... :hihi: but admittedly, we were trained to write that way, and i think some have this funny notion that the more ambiguous or complicated the language used, the more that our client/s would be willing to pay for our services. kasi nga naman, kung madaling maintindihan, di na nila kami kakailanganin. kaya yung post mo about "clarity" with writing/speaking having "one key purpose: to be understood" <-- hindi applicable in certain cases.

kung paguluhan lang nang usapan, wala ng mas gugulo pa sa amin. :cool: ganyan talaga mga dentista, magulong kausap, diba ff? :rofl:


r4k3t_m4n

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Reply #11 on: Jun 18, 2013, 12:27 AM
Thanks r4k3tm4n! yeh, i would want to use simple words too especially when dealing with or writing to clients or ordinary individuals, but peers/colleagues are  so hung up with these old formalities (most are actually obsolete/archaic) in language. they insist on using words like whereby, whereof, whereas, wheretofore etc... naknampoodle, parang laging may nawawala, puro "where" ang sinasabi... :hihi: but admittedly, we were trained to write that way, and i think some have this funny notion that the more ambiguous or complicated the language used, the more that our client/s would be willing to pay for our services. kasi nga naman, kung madaling maintindihan, di na nila kami kakailanganin. kaya yung post mo about "clarity" with writing/speaking having "one key purpose: to be understood" <-- hindi applicable in certain cases.

kung paguluhan lang nang usapan, wala ng mas gugulo pa sa amin. :cool: ganyan talaga mga dentista, magulong kausap, diba ff? :rofl:

Bakit naman dentista? I'm not aware that ah ... :rolleyes:
(no offense meant if indeed you are one)

Pagkakaalam ko ay mas gamit ng mga lawyers (which I think u r) ang mga whereas, whereby, wherefore, whereof, (werUna kasali ba? lol) kasi most legal terms are in latin. Un ang strategy nila, the more confusing the terms are, the more is their power over those unfamiliar with legal parlance, right?

loc cit, op cit, pan cit

 :hihi:
« Last Edit: Jun 18, 2013, 12:29 AM by r4k3t_m4n »


r4k3t_m4n

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Reply #12 on: Jun 18, 2013, 10:59 PM
about vs. with
something wrong about ...
something wrong with ...

with vs. to
in relation with...
in relation to...


Hi @vicces, here's another installment of my response. I tried to squeeze the two separate topics into one because I think once their particular use are known, your questions will be answered...

about, with, to

Let's first define them as prepositions, since they are used in this format for this particular case.

About means "relating to, concerning, on the subject of," with means "in the company of, alongside of," while to means "in a direction towards, in a particular relationship with." In several instances, these three tend to have many similarities, but when they are used with a particular word or term, their differences can be clearly determined.

For instance, let's use the verb "talk."

"Talk about" means discussing about something (describing), like "The teacher talked about the lesson."

"Talk with" implies having a two-way (two or more) conversation (reciprocal), such as "My father is talking with his friend."

"Talk to" suggests a one-way direction of communication (non-reciprocal), like "She already talked to her son about his grades."

Now, to address the actual topics you've raised:

I think "Something wrong about ..." and "Something wrong with ..." can be used interchangeably because they're not contrasting in meaning because both pertain to describing or suggesting that "something is not correct about something."

On the other hand, based on the definition of with and to we made above, I suggest you use:

"In relation with" to indicate about the similarity(ies) between two (or more) things.
"In relation to" to imply more of differences or to suggest comparison.

I hope this post helps. More to come...

 :coffee:


vicces

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Reply #13 on: Jun 18, 2013, 11:21 PM

gratitude, r4k3t_man, gratitude. :cool2:


r4k3t_m4n

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Reply #14 on: Jun 19, 2013, 02:19 AM
gratitude, r4k3t_man, gratitude. :cool2:

Walang anu man, may utang pa akong isa...

 :welcome:


 


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