PMT Forum
How do you want to make money today?

"Sir Tony8898's Corner "

kithe · 1110 · 181660

Senyor

  • Forum Master 400
  • ***
    • Posts: 461
    • Likes Received: +0/-0
Reply #15 on: Jun 10, 2013, 12:04 AM
Bookmarked. Nice Thread Sir Tony. Looking forward. Quantity na Quality pa.
Risk ON!

 :applause:


Tony8898

  • Forum Expert 500
  • ****
    • Posts: 543
    • Likes Received: +0/-0
Reply #16 on: Jun 10, 2013, 06:02 AM
Bookmarked. Nice Thread Sir Tony. Looking forward. Quantity na Quality pa.
Risk ON!

 :applause:

--- hi Senyor, yes risk on na.

.many people got off the bus only to get in again .. Still very liquid market.


Tony8898

  • Forum Expert 500
  • ****
    • Posts: 543
    • Likes Received: +0/-0
Reply #17 on: Jun 10, 2013, 06:21 AM


Of course I am not literally saying to all the newbies GO and borrow 500k! ..lol i dont mean it like that for the younger guys.

But what I am saying is this.

When i was 30 years old i didnt have much capital...( it was 1990!)  Very small and less than 100k So i was doing mostly ADHD trading. Then the bull run of 1990 - 1993 happened.

Looking back, it was that time when I first borrowed money and went long term. Got volume

All i am saying is this.

When I look back to what really mattered and what gave me the capital to bet bigger and bigger, it was that moment when i was 30 years old that i decided to borrow
so i will get volume.

( i have mortgaged my house, borrowed from a Ninong,  and from an aunt at 15% p.a., even from a stock broker on margin, tplus 10, tplus 30, etc. you name it I have done it all)

Having said this, NOT everyone should borrow to buy stocks. You must only do this if you have the following characteristics:

1) you got in lucky. You have one foot on the trade. You got in low and built a small base, now you need to add volume but even if you borrowed, your low base is like a shield or protection to a minor downturn

2) you are disciplined in cut loss. You monitor more or less everyday. If you bought more MEG at 3 pesos and have a cut loss at 2.80, you are able to execute..ganun ka ka disciplined!

3) you have access to loan. You have raw land or a condo and the bank will lend it to you at 8%, against your 2 million condo unit, bank will lend you 800k. Something like that.

4) you have some income monthly that will allow you to pay the interest on the loan.

5) most of all, you noticed that when you are leveraged on a stock, you are more disciplined.. Kasi borrowed funds iyon. When you are not borrowed to the play, you tend to be too laid back..in a declining market, you will not sell, anyways you just sit on it.

6) you are single and live with your parents! Yes, this was me when i first started kaya malakas ang loob ko noon, .whaaaaa!

If you have all the qualities above, yeah must start using some leverage.. Coz its the only way you can get volume :)


Tony8898

  • Forum Expert 500
  • ****
    • Posts: 543
    • Likes Received: +0/-0
Reply #18 on: Jun 10, 2013, 07:42 AM
Lol. I need to put this up since i got many funny but recurring messages, like how long I have been in stocks, etc.

-------------------
-I am 53 years old.
- My first few trades where way back in 1990
- The first stock i bought with volume and leveraged was ABS CBN which went up from 30 pesos to 120 pesos from june 1993 to december of 1993 ( in six months)That was the 1993 bull run. I tasted blood. My first taste.

I thought Abs CBn would keep going up! Lol. So i didnt get off at 120, the peak.
I got out at 80 pesos, some at 64 pesos! Ouch, i didnt even read charts back then.

In early 1990's if you told bankers you use charts, they think you were crazy. Everyone was fundamental analysis based.

Then in 1995, i started buying more the secondliners. They seem to move faster.
Higher beta stocks it seems.

So i dabbled in PTT, DMc, MeG, MPC, you name it. In the 1997 crash, then the 1998 short rally, i saw DMC go as low as 70 cents, only to get back to 4 pesos in about a year.

Things like this gave me an idea...buy close to PaR, if not lower. Then hold on! Why would a good stock more than 20 years old trade at PAR value?

My best move was before the 1997 crash. I sold out in 1996 and bought a house in an exclusive village in makati. The best move i made. Today that house is 5.5X what i paid for it in 1996!

For this 2009 bull run, i mortgaged that same house and bought MeG and Lopez. Today my average cost in MeG is below 1 peso,some i bought at .55/share.  my LpZ is probably below 1.60 pesos.

So my point is this. Stocks go up first when the bull run happens. Make your killing then buy property. Its safer to have property on borrowed money, than stocks.

But you must always borrow to buy an appreciating asset. Do not borrow to buy a car or a laptop, not what i mean., you are borrowing to buy assets that depreciate.

You see, central banks now printing money like crazy. This is why we get a bull run,
Negative interest rates.

What it also means is that your money is worthless in a few years.

Do not leave your money in the bank for long. It will hurt you. Why?

Because  that house you will buy in 3 years from now after you have saved, - will also cost 2x more by the time you have saved to buy it.






Skyrise

  • Forum Tambay 200
  • ***
    • Posts: 222
    • Likes Received: +0/-0
Reply #19 on: Jun 10, 2013, 09:29 AM
Words of Wisdom it is.

I more relief that someone prove that value investing per se is much a killer compare to traders. I'm tired of arguing with my friends who did like Alex in your example. Showing off their kills in months time but now nganga after the correction  :hihi:

After reading your post, I should focus on that stock that will give me a fortune, maybe :)

 :cool2:


sj.unite

  • Forum Tambay 200
  • ***
    • Posts: 243
    • Likes Received: +0/-0
Reply #20 on: Jun 10, 2013, 09:45 AM
Grabe nakakarelate ako sa mga posts mo sir. I bought almost everything in my portfolio at peak and now, I'm at a loss (eto po ba yung meaning ng ADHD? lol). Never really thought that the market will correct this hard (it's my first time experiencing it). Balak ko po when the market recovers, I'll sell half of my portfolio and put it in two or three stocks na lang.


jpm247

  • Forum Tambay 200
  • ***
    • Posts: 240
    • Likes Received: +0/-0
Reply #21 on: Jun 10, 2013, 10:12 AM
I forgot to ask about this sir Tony XD I was in the Phil last May 24-26, and I thought you already had a meeting with them before LOL sana mayroon pa next time.
More power to you sir! :D :thankyou:



Tony8898

  • Forum Expert 500
  • ****
    • Posts: 543
    • Likes Received: +0/-0
Reply #22 on: Jun 10, 2013, 11:40 AM
^skyrise . sj.unite

Its okay to lose money . its tuition fee.

if you are both below 35 years old, look at it this way - time is on your side :)

I am 53 years old, I may have 1 or 2 bull runs at most. yes they occur every 7 to 10 years.

you could have 3 to 4 major bull runs in your lifetimes. how are you gonna ride it? that is the question.

will you ride it with volume? average up as the bus moves from baclaran to monumento?

or will you ride it pa sundot sundot, or pa talon talon, not really getting volume and being ADHD?

you need to ride the next two big bull runs from baclaran to mounumento and stay sitted on the bus!

now is okay to buy,

i think if you buy stocks now, the bus is in cubao or santolan already

you could still make money, pwede pa.. but maybe just  buy an ipad or a honda civic with your killings

but the next bull run.

maybe its in 2016,, or 2017

you need to buy after the" bloodbath.

the next bloodbath is gonna be bloody..

bloody kasi bloodbath nga..(hehe..)
seriously, we went up to high

if we reach 10,000 index, you bet the correction can bring us down to 4,000 or lower! 

why because this bull run started in 2009 at 1,747.

the 1993 bull run started in 1989 from a low of 500 index in 1989, it went up to 3,300 by 1993. That is 6X! right?

so assume this bull run started at 1,747 low in 2009, then  x 6 = 10,400 tops!

6,800 to 10,400 is still a good ride. I hope. it could end at 8,000 or a double top at 7,500

my point is, you could still ride a few stocks .

MEG at 3.80 is 380,000 for 100,000 shares.

if it indeed peaks at 7 pesos, your 380,000 becomes 700,000

its not that great vs. if you bought at 2.80 but still its decent .

but who knows, we always just stay sitted on the bus..

what if MEG gets to 12 pesos in this bull run or 9 pesos?

good luck. you dont need many stocks. just one you understand


Tony8898

  • Forum Expert 500
  • ****
    • Posts: 543
    • Likes Received: +0/-0
Reply #23 on: Jun 10, 2013, 12:02 PM
Sir Tony, ano po ba gamot sa mga tulad naming may adhd    :hihi:

^ mongkoy

Lol.. Simple lang ang cure Mongkoy ( by the way, nice meeting you too!)

Look and marry a lady who is laid back. Dont marry someone who is adhd too
..Haha

--- but seriously marry or settle down with someone who " completes you".

So if you are an ADHD person. Cguro, marry someone who works in a SPA? Yung massahista Para marelax ka! Hehe

Actually, I am also an ADHD having grown up in Makati and being in financial services.  My wife is the opposite. I just learned not to be adhd in stocks. But when it comes to office work, business meetings, i easily gets bored before. I learned that my mind was always thinking.. Ayun so, im also adhd. Its good my wife is the opposite of me, pasensyosa and parang hindi marunong bumasa ng relo yung wife ko. Kaya cheap watch lang binibili ko form her! Haha..

Ako naman, im always rushing.. Always looking at the time..And i get impatient waiting.

I guess just be adhd, but not in buying or selling stocks. ..i learned not to after years of trading


vicces

  • VIP Member
  • *****
    • Posts: 3,451
    • Likes Received: +0/-0
Reply #24 on: Jun 10, 2013, 02:27 PM
salamat sir tony for your reply... so did i understand u correctly, u diversify in your asset classes, but not in your stockholdings? #foodforthought

anyway, i'll have you know that it was your posts late last year about OPM that bolstered my confidence to also leverage, subok lang (i used to be one who is scared of getting into any kind of debt), and so far, it seems profitable (with the borrowed money my port reached a high of 26% before the correction, which should only have been 18% if my own money will be the basis; yun lang, balik 19.7% nung nagcorrect) . and im glad that you made clear that investing for the long term doesnt mean you hold, right or wrong.. as I also now have a margin account (inspired by your advice about leveraging and getting volume), I can very much relate with your points about staying disciplined especially when your stop loss triggers are breached. since im using money not entirely mine, there is more impetus to intervene to manage losses...

now its really just a matter of finding my own MEG that will make me sit quietly with it for the long haul (takot sa long term commitment :hihi: )... pero baka nga sa 2016 ko na sya madiskubre, for now, im just tryin to understand as much as I can, about the individual stocks, our market and lock in some gains along the way... :scratch:
« Last Edit: Jun 10, 2013, 02:48 PM by vicces »


bauer

  • VIP 4500
  • *****
    • Posts: 4,857
    • Likes Received: +12/-0
Reply #25 on: Jun 10, 2013, 02:50 PM
Having said this, NOT everyone should borrow to buy stocks. You must only do this if you have the following characteristics:

1) you got in lucky. You have one foot on the trade. You got in low and built a small base, now you need to add volume but even if you borrowed, your low base is like a shield or protection to a minor downturn

2) you are disciplined in cut loss. You monitor more or less everyday. If you bought more MEG at 3 pesos and have a cut loss at 2.80, you are able to execute..ganun ka ka disciplined!

3) you have access to loan. You have raw land or a condo and the bank will lend it to you at 8%, against your 2 million condo unit, bank will lend you 800k. Something like that.

4) you have some income monthly that will allow you to pay the interest on the loan.

5) most of all, you noticed that when you are leveraged on a stock, you are more disciplined.. Kasi borrowed funds iyon. When you are not borrowed to the play, you tend to be too laid back..in a declining market, you will not sell, anyways you just sit on it.

6) you are single and live with your parents! Yes, this was me when i first started kaya malakas ang loob ko noon, .whaaaaa!

If you have all the qualities above, yeah must start using some leverage.. Coz its the only way you can get volume :)


To all stocks investors,

I do not agree and espouse the wisdom of leverage in stock trading BUT I highly appreciate the efforts of tony8898 to EMPHASIZE the pre-qualifications BEFORE ANYONE tries using leverage in stock trading. 

Leverage is good only for persons with unique talents in trading of securities and it is not for everyone including myself for sanity sake.

Please do make sure that you possessed 100% all the requirements posted here BEFORE trying to get some loans and trade in stocks.  Believe me, MOST people lose money in stocks and only few are smart enough to get rich so be very careful in your trades.

@tony8898,

I assume you will not take it against me to post my opinion in this thread.  In positive note, i'm learning some new ideas that you shared in all your posts.


b0zanian

  • Junior Member
  • **
    • Posts: 47
    • Likes Received: +0/-0
Reply #26 on: Jun 10, 2013, 04:39 PM
@kithe great idea on this thread! :) that way, I 'don't need to back read the different thread's tony8898 posted on. I thought I replied earlier this morning, wala pala

@tony8898 --- thanks for continuously sharing your thoughts! got shaken out of SMPH during the previous days. will use the cash to try to build a position in MEG, albeit a small one :)

good day y'all!


rds

  • PMT Jedi 2000
  • ****
    • Posts: 2,048
    • Likes Received: +0/-0
Reply #27 on: Jun 10, 2013, 05:49 PM
Leverage is good only for persons with unique talents in trading of securities and it is not for everyone including myself for sanity sake.

totally agree! EXCEPT that, in your case bauer, you are one of those with unique talents who can use leverage in investing in stocks. i can only imagine that if you have only engaged in leverage during 2008, how much would your MWC, RCB and FPH should worth now. maybe five-fold? enough to buy a condo at serendra.

consider the following scenario:

- aspiring businessmen are using leverage (making their properties as collateral) to start (or expand) their business...and according to statistics only 1 out of 10 new business will succeed in 10 years.

- real estate investors are using leverage (buying new property using existing properties the collateral) in order to maximize their investment potential.

- or even a simple house construction (making loan using existing property as collateral) to build/renovate a house which even does not bring cash.

--- if we dare to use leverage (loans) to start a business, expand real estate investment, or buying a liability (house), WHY IS IT NOT ADVISABLE TO USE LEVERAGE ON SECURITIES, not to mention that for the past histories (proven and tested hundred years) stocks had an average earnings better than properties, or less risky than starting business (with survival rate of 10%)?


bauer

  • VIP 4500
  • *****
    • Posts: 4,857
    • Likes Received: +12/-0
Reply #28 on: Jun 10, 2013, 06:01 PM
totally agree! EXCEPT that, in your case bauer, you are one of those with unique talents who can use leverage in investing in stocks. i can only imagine that if you have only engaged in leverage during 2008, how much would your MWC, RCB and FPH should worth now. maybe five-fold? enough to buy a condo at serendra.
 

I'm not sure if its a compliment @RDS. 
not counting any profit earned from stocks, i'm not really inclined to invest in condo units unless there's a compelling need for it.

likewise, I was not able to capture all the fruits of my labor in stock trades but I am satisfied with the results so far especially without any leverage to worry about.  Absences of leverage reduces any pressure to trade at a certain emotional state plus the mental stress that goes with it.


bauer

  • VIP 4500
  • *****
    • Posts: 4,857
    • Likes Received: +12/-0
Reply #29 on: Jun 10, 2013, 06:09 PM
--- if we dare to use leverage (loans) to start a business, expand real estate investment, or buying a liability (house), WHY IS IT NOT ADVISABLE TO USE LEVERAGE ON SECURITIES, not to mention that for the past histories (proven and tested hundred years) stocks had an average earnings better than properties, or less risky than starting business (with survival rate of 10%)?

I do not advise anyone to use leverage on business loans EXCEPT if the loans are intended for expansion not start ups.

leverage is acceptable in real estate investment up to a certain degree.  real properties are not as volatile as stocks.

buying a house using leverage is perfectly understandable and should not be compared to leverage in stocks.  a house represents a dream fulfilled for the safety and shelter of the family.  a stock investment is just one of the many options to SAVE for your future.  also, a house is LESS VOLATILE and MORE PERMANENT investment than stocks.

Again, stocks are difficult to comprehend while houses, real properties, and businesses are easier to plan and execute with less volatility.  Plus, stocks are more difficult to control and manage so leverage must be utilize with extra care and diligence.


 


PMT Shoutbox

Refresh History
  • Post only questions or comments here. Advertisements NOT ALLOWED.
  • roselove: hello po sa inyo... newbie here
    Aug 06, 2019, 03:31 PM
  • Niel Jhacoubs: Sino palaging active dito?
    Jul 30, 2019, 04:15 PM
  • dagocjasonrey: Anong update dito?
    Jul 22, 2019, 08:49 PM
  • mark_Lee: anong bago dito
    Jun 28, 2019, 01:03 AM
  • mark_Lee: balita
    Jun 28, 2019, 01:03 AM
  • Lovelyprincess72: hi everyone , I'm newbie here
    Jun 27, 2019, 02:36 PM
  • Niel Jhacoubs: Musta?
    Jun 26, 2019, 01:43 PM
  • Forexanalysis: Hello
    Jun 25, 2019, 06:33 PM
  • Niel Jhacoubs: Hello sa mga online jan! :)
    Jun 15, 2019, 02:58 PM
  • oragon: :applause:
    May 20, 2019, 03:53 PM
  • FutureGizmo: Thank you for reporting those spam posts, oragon! Spam posts now deleted.
    May 20, 2019, 01:59 PM
  • oragon: Admin kindly monitor some peps! posting and sharing inappropriate nude photos and website links
    May 20, 2019, 01:52 PM
  • @culinary10: Hello I am new here! Regarding sa bdo life insurance for 8 years, pwede pa kaya ma refund yung binayad ko na 50k last year? Gusto ko sana icancel kasi lack of financial na, last may 15 2018 po un nag start ako ng life insurance, pinili ko annually kaso etong may 15 2019 wala nako ma ipay so gusto ko sana icash out, may alam ba kayo kung pano marerefund?
    May 17, 2019, 07:56 PM
  • FutureGizmo: Hi Sonny, the posting issue is now resolved. Thanks for informing us! We're currently testing a new, mobile-ready theme so let us us know kung may problema pa sa Forum. :)
    Apr 04, 2019, 10:40 AM
  • sonny.wapak: Nakaka receive din ba kayo nito pag gawa ng new post? "Please try again. If you come back to this error screen, report the error to an administrator."
    Apr 03, 2019, 10:56 PM
  • leonine_zafiro: what product nun?
    Apr 01, 2019, 10:25 PM
  • dhondiex27: hi
    Mar 30, 2019, 10:55 PM
  • lusart: jayrob i agree 200%. hulog ng langit organico. legit na legit
    Mar 29, 2019, 09:08 AM
  • palemelch: Hi
    Mar 28, 2019, 04:08 PM
  • O.C.W._AK: Magandang Araw sa Lahat! Blessings! (",)
    Mar 28, 2019, 08:42 AM
  • thor15: hello everyone, newbie here
    Mar 25, 2019, 01:47 AM
  • captjaylo: present newbie here
    Mar 22, 2019, 10:06 AM
  • balboagilbert26: hello Guys .. Newbie here
    Mar 21, 2019, 10:55 PM
  • businesswoman2019: @jefsanity nag inquire na po ako pero di sila nagdidisclose. Yung branch po kasi na target ko, currently building pa.
    Mar 21, 2019, 04:27 PM
  • jefsanity: @businesswoman2019, much better inquire ka na lang sa admin nila.
    Mar 21, 2019, 01:51 PM
  • businesswoman2019: Hello! Any idea how much ang stall sa waltermart. 2m x 2m
    Mar 21, 2019, 08:28 AM
  • John Neil: Looking for an accredited iron foundry
    Mar 17, 2019, 03:19 PM
  • jayrob: Mark_Lee ung organico legit po yan..  Member din AQ..
    Mar 17, 2019, 12:57 AM
  • perlymelad: Hello po! Need advice, why my new MLM leaders failing?
    Mar 14, 2019, 08:51 PM
  • perlymelad: Present
    Mar 12, 2019, 07:53 PM
  • kennethmauricio: Hi saan po dito pwede mag post ng for sale properties?
    Mar 11, 2019, 07:58 PM
  • jefsanity: @mark_lee isipin mo anu passion mo at skills mo...
    Mar 11, 2019, 06:52 PM
  • sniperaj09: BAGO LANG
    Mar 10, 2019, 11:16 AM
  • mark_Lee: magandang investnent ngayon sa 30k suggest naman keo mga boss
    Mar 10, 2019, 03:07 AM
  • perlymelad: E-BOOK PO SIR @JEFSANITY
    Mar 09, 2019, 05:40 PM
  • perlymelad: @jefsanity Good Morning Po
    Mar 09, 2019, 05:39 PM
  • perlymelad: Good Day everyone
    Mar 04, 2019, 06:24 PM
  • jefsanity: anu ang small business na yan?
    Feb 28, 2019, 07:40 PM
  • perlymelad: Good Day Everyone
    Feb 28, 2019, 03:31 PM
  • perlymelad: Hello everyone, CAN ANYONE HELP ME SUGGEST ANY SIDE TOPIC  / PROBLEM OF  STARTING SMALL BUSINESS?
    Feb 28, 2019, 06:58 AM
  • perlymelad: Present, 1st time po
    Feb 25, 2019, 06:17 PM
  • jd2281: newbie po
    Feb 25, 2019, 12:26 PM
  • ejllantino: present... 1st time
    Feb 24, 2019, 07:14 PM
  • rheiel: present. first time
    Feb 24, 2019, 11:04 AM
  • MELVIE: thanks po
    Feb 24, 2019, 12:50 AM
  • steph123: hello po, ask lang po, ilang months po ba ang hihintayin after mo ma process ang mga documents para maitama ang mali sa NSO?
    Feb 11, 2019, 03:13 PM
  • Deborah: newbie here.thanks
    Feb 08, 2019, 02:17 PM
  • marj0503: hello im newbie here
    Jan 31, 2019, 10:53 AM
  • yan24: any one here planning to start a tesda skill training center
    Jan 26, 2019, 12:07 PM
  • manzjon: Forex trading forum
    Jan 25, 2019, 02:16 PM