PMT Forum
How do you want to make money today?

Bakit maraming ayaw magnetworking?

aceplayerjon · 203 · 65507

J3Patino

  • Senior Member
  • **
    • Posts: 56
    • Likes Received: +0/-0
Reply #15 on: Oct 02, 2012, 09:38 PM
Just to clarify lang: MLM in itself is not a scam. May mga tao lang na yung galaw nila eh gusto kang i-scam (over promising, quick cash, saying you have nothing to lose... etc.)

So ang issue dito ay hindi MLM, pero yung mga MLMers na talagang nanloloko ng tao and hindi nagbibigay ng full disclosure. Though I think kasalanan din naman ito ng mga nagpapaloko. We just need to be smarter investors.

Then on the comment na the system is built so that 97% will fail... This goes for any system naman eh. Ang mga hindi magsisipag at mag t-trabaho ay maluluge.

Subukan mong maging successful na singer... If hindi ka mag attend ng voice lessons, mag praktis araw araw, at alagan yung boses mo you will also fail like most people do.

Ganun din sa MLM - if hindi ka mag attend ng training, if hindi ka mag invite, if hindi ka mag benta (dahil "ayaw" mo mag benta - eh talagang you will FAIL.

I'm saying this because I joined 2 networking companies (Legacy and USANA) and I didn't continue it (in other words I "failed" in it.) Pero I don't blame MLM. I don't blame my team, I don't blame anyone. Ako lang ang dahilan kung bakit ko hindi tinuloy at ginawa ang MLM...









angelako

  • Junior Member
  • **
    • Posts: 27
    • Likes Received: +0/-0
Reply #16 on: Mar 28, 2013, 02:14 AM
Just to clarify lang: MLM in itself is not a scam. May mga tao lang na yung galaw nila eh gusto kang i-scam (over promising, quick cash, saying you have nothing to lose... etc.)

So ang issue dito ay hindi MLM, pero yung mga MLMers na talagang nanloloko ng tao and hindi nagbibigay ng full disclosure. Though I think kasalanan din naman ito ng mga nagpapaloko. We just need to be smarter investors.

Then on the comment na the system is built so that 97% will fail... This goes for any system naman eh. Ang mga hindi magsisipag at mag t-trabaho ay maluluge.

Subukan mong maging successful na singer... If hindi ka mag attend ng voice lessons, mag praktis araw araw, at alagan yung boses mo you will also fail like most people do.

Ganun din sa MLM - if hindi ka mag attend ng training, if hindi ka mag invite, if hindi ka mag benta (dahil "ayaw" mo mag benta - eh talagang you will FAIL.

I'm saying this because I joined 2 networking companies (Legacy and USANA) and I didn't continue it (in other words I "failed" in it.) Pero I don't blame MLM. I don't blame my team, I don't blame anyone. Ako lang ang dahilan kung bakit ko hindi tinuloy at ginawa ang MLM...

Very Well said ,agree ako nito ,ang mlm ay isa lang yang sasakyan,pero ikaw mismo ang magmamaneho patungo saan mo gusto,,hindi ka makakarating sa iyong patutunguhan kung hindi mo paandarin.


martirytnow

  • Newbie
  • *
    • Posts: 4
    • Likes Received: +0/-0
Reply #17 on: Apr 27, 2013, 10:48 PM
My answer would be because most people that are involved in networking focus more on the recruiting aspect rather than the actual selling of a product. It seems shady if the people recruiting can't even explain what their product is. My advise to you is to first understand your product, sell it, and then recruit your repeating customers.


Market_Market

  • PMT Jedi 2000
  • ****
    • Posts: 2,006
    • Likes Received: +1/-0
Reply #18 on: Apr 28, 2013, 12:44 AM
"recruit your repeating customers".

I read a study that this is a stupid business practice.
MLM promotes this but this practice is stupid.

Here's a logical example:
1) Your best customer gives you 5k php profit every month.
2) If you make him/her your downline, then that profit shrinks to just commission of maybe 100-250php.

Is that good business?


Mumay25

  • Forum Master 300
  • ***
    • Posts: 367
    • Likes Received: +0/-0
Reply #19 on: May 02, 2013, 09:56 PM
Just to clarify lang: MLM in itself is not a scam. May mga tao lang na yung galaw nila eh gusto kang i-scam (over promising, quick cash, saying you have nothing to lose... etc.)

So ang issue dito ay hindi MLM, pero yung mga MLMers na talagang nanloloko ng tao and hindi nagbibigay ng full disclosure. Though I think kasalanan din naman ito ng mga nagpapaloko. We just need to be smarter investors.

Then on the comment na the system is built so that 97% will fail... This goes for any system naman eh. Ang mga hindi magsisipag at mag t-trabaho ay maluluge.

Subukan mong maging successful na singer... If hindi ka mag attend ng voice lessons, mag praktis araw araw, at alagan yung boses mo you will also fail like most people do.

Ganun din sa MLM - if hindi ka mag attend ng training, if hindi ka mag invite, if hindi ka mag benta (dahil "ayaw" mo mag benta - eh talagang you will FAIL.

I'm saying this because I joined 2 networking companies (Legacy and USANA) and I didn't continue it (in other words I "failed" in it.) Pero I don't blame MLM. I don't blame my team, I don't blame anyone. Ako lang ang dahilan kung bakit ko hindi tinuloy at ginawa ang MLM...









Naka relate ako...I dont blame them though about padin ang encourage nila skin sumama sa mga seminars sabi ko nlng "Madami ako gnagwa pag weekends eh." But on the back of my mind it's just not worth it...sayang time effort and pera kung bibili nlng ako ng fruits and veg. plus monthly work out sessions plus time and effort pumunta sa gym BOOM instant hunk or sexy ka! hnd mo kelangan ng sliming eklat or stuffs na mag ppromise na papayat ka! there is no such thing! kung business nman pag uusapan mas malakas pa kumita mag mamani sa kalsada! dhil pag kain un eh! consumable kelangan ng katawan! kung lalaklakin mo ba vitamins araw araw mabubusog kba???

But yet again...This is one of my greatest failures...and i surely learn something from it!


erek

  • Junior Member
  • **
    • Posts: 36
    • Likes Received: +0/-0
Reply #20 on: May 03, 2013, 07:54 AM
1. I don't like selling items I don't know how to market.
2. I don't like the idea of recruiting someone to join me.

Also, I have been to one the seminars regarding MLM 4 years ago due to my wife's friend.

My missus', back then  she's still my girlfriend, friend told her that she will be making some bracelet for them to sell and she would like to talk to her at megamall. I came along with her to go to the meetup. Little did we know that we were brought upon an UNO seminar.

One thing that strike me off there is the sheer enthusiasm of the crowd, which I reckon were college students... it felt like I was brought to a cult seminar of somesort. By every promise the host gives, the more fervor the cheer. The crowd also went crazy when this college boy came into the stage  and said " 6 months palang ako sa uno,me kotse na ko! Salamat uno!".

After the seminar, I thought we're gonna talk about the bracelet product my wife's friend told us earlier but nope, we were brought to a mcdonald chain near strata with some of the guys she met at Uno then they were starting to pitch in their products and trying to persuade us to join.  I still remember one guy that  kept on saying "hanggang kelan ka ba mag chachaga dian sa trabaho mong 15k lang sweldo? ako nag aaral ako ng engineering pero alam ko dito ako kikita ng pera at magpapayaman saken." .Then this one guy came in and put his arm round my shoulder and counted some money and said " kumita akong 10k 2 days palang bat ayaw mo sumali sir?". Even if we declined the offer, this kept going and going for several hours as they  trying to weaken our mental endurance. I saw some of the members inside the foodchain also trying to recruit people who were just eating there. In the end, walang nangyari lol.

The next day, My wife was received a text message from her friend if she's interested on joining. When she replied that we think the whole idea was a scam, she texted us a copypasta reply that uno was misunderstood and those negative feedbacks were just haters hating on uno for being successful.

The whole experience ruined the idea of the MLM for me. I know MLM isn't technically illegal but members being so rabidly focused on recruiting other people made it look like a scam instead of selling the product they receive.

Bonus pala hehe,  Last year wife brought up the MLM topic on her friend and asked what happened to that obsession of her. She said it's all wasted effort, all of her circle of friends there never earned a dime and the guy who showed us money was never actually his.




jomelert

  • Newbie
  • *
    • Posts: 8
    • Likes Received: +0/-0
Reply #21 on: May 03, 2013, 11:03 AM
Sipag at tiyaga dyan tayo aasenso.. :D


sphinxz

  • Forum Master 300
  • ***
    • Posts: 390
    • Likes Received: +0/-0
Reply #22 on: May 03, 2013, 12:31 PM
I read a study that this is a stupid business practice.
MLM promotes this but this practice is stupid.

Here's a logical example:
1) Your best customer gives you 5k php profit every month.
2) If you make him/her your downline, then that profit shrinks to just commission of maybe 100-250php.

Is that good business?
not per se but it depends. yes if:
1. you're business is growing and you barely have enough time to cater to other incoming new customers.
2. assuming that person is also retailing, meaning your profit from him is not just his personal consumption but his own network.

at first glance, you will have lesser direct income but the potential can be higher. just like in a corporate world, you need to learn how to delegate. but before doing that, you should know to whom you will delegate.


george88

  • PMT Idol 1000
  • ****
    • Posts: 1,212
    • Likes Received: +0/-0
Reply #23 on: May 03, 2013, 02:16 PM
If the income or most of the people presenting the business earns from pairing, matching bonus, dual team and not on the product sold by the entire organization stay away...


lemreyes

  • Forum Tambay 200
  • ***
    • Posts: 219
    • Likes Received: +0/-0
Reply #24 on: May 03, 2013, 04:30 PM
I don't want to ruin personal relationships and reputation just in case the MLM I joined (if I join) was a scam.


Market_Market

  • PMT Jedi 2000
  • ****
    • Posts: 2,006
    • Likes Received: +1/-0
Reply #25 on: May 03, 2013, 04:59 PM
not per se but it depends. yes if:
1. you're business is growing and you barely have enough time to cater to other incoming new customers.
2. assuming that person is also retailing, meaning your profit from him is not just his personal consumption but his own network.

at first glance, you will have lesser direct income but the potential can be higher. just like in a corporate world, you need to learn how to delegate. but before doing that, you should know to whom you will delegate.

I do not understand.
1.) Business is growing, okay so my business is growing and I earn 5k from my best customer.  How hard is it to read my customers text or email for his/her order.  I can "delegate" that task to a relative or a friend.  Why would I want to give more attention to incoming new customers when I already have this great customer?  I would give attention to new ones but never give up on this "best customer".  "It is 10 times easier to retain a customer than to get a new one" as they say.
2.) If the person is also retailing, it doesn't change the fact that I am earning 5k by selling products to him/her.  Why recruit my best customer and lessen my profit to just 100php to 250php.


Yes the potential can be higher, but have you ever tried computing how many down-lines your "best customer" has to have before you earn 5k from it? 
Sadly I can no longer find the website about the article I read regarding recruiting your best customer.  It explained a lot.


Market_Market

  • PMT Jedi 2000
  • ****
    • Posts: 2,006
    • Likes Received: +1/-0
Reply #26 on: May 03, 2013, 05:09 PM
My missus', back then  she's still my girlfriend, friend told her that she will be making some bracelet for them to sell and she would like to talk to her at megamall. I came along with her to go to the meetup. Little did we know that we were brought upon an UNO seminar.

Same experience!
One of the reasons I hate MLM is that they "sometimes" make you a liar.
A friend also ask me for help regarding the stock market.
Guess what?  It is NOT about the stock market!
It is about joining MLM.
If my count is correct, my friend lied to me a total of three (3) times.
First lie is about wanting my help about "stock market".
Second lie is about the people involved, I made it clear I can assist the "two" of them, then I find out it may involve several people.
Third lie is about the meeting place, we decided I can answer my friend's questions on any fastfood place, but my friend wanted to take me to an "office".

Do you want to join a company that will compel you to lie to your friends?
What are you so ashamed of that you have to lie?  Is MLM that bad?
Tsk tsk tsk.


Market_Market

  • PMT Jedi 2000
  • ****
    • Posts: 2,006
    • Likes Received: +1/-0
Reply #27 on: May 03, 2013, 05:17 PM
This is a nice read regarding MLMs:

http://www.vandruff.com/mlm.html
"MLMs are "doomed by design" to recruit too many salespeople, who in turn will then attempt to recruit even more salespeople, ad infinitum."

WARNING: Article contains stuff againts MLM. Still good for any pro MLMers out there to read so they will be prepared for any questions thrown at them.


truthhunter101

  • Junior Member
  • **
    • Posts: 29
    • Likes Received: +0/-0
Reply #28 on: Jun 08, 2013, 09:06 AM
Ang nagpapasira sa MLM ay yung mga distributor din

Sa case ng UNO yung karamihang mga distributor dun talagang pepwersahin ka mag member kahit wala kang pang sign up. Ang gagawin lang una kung ano yung available mong gadget kukunin muna nila pag naka pag sign up ka na sa kanila ibabalik or minsan hindi na maibabalik sayo. Yung mga ganun gawain ang magpapasira sa MLM if patuloy pa rin gagawin. Yung inviting style naman ng dalawang grupo sa NU - Skin. Yung isa job interview kuno tapos yung isa wealth course naman tapos in the end front loading pala  ayun din pampasira din sa MLM yung ganun gawiin. So sa pag iinvite iwasan yung mga susumunod:

*Yung kidnap style - Ayan ang pampasira ng both MLM at dignidad mo. Siyempre nag eexpect siya na kakain kayo sa labas ayun pala business opportunity meeting pala. Tapos maririnig niya sa seminar magbabayad ng ganun ganyan see turned off din sayo friend mo. Kay you end up in NFL - No Friends League. See nasira na ang MLM at nasira ka din kung baga mas malala yung pagkasira ng dignidad mo kesa sa prostitute buti pa yun in some sort nauunawaan bakit niya nagawa yun eh ikaw? See my point?

*Yung magiinvite ka na job interview kuno - Ayan pampasira din ng pangalan ng MLM yan. Syempre nag eexpect ang tao na work talaga pupuntahan nila tapos ang madadatnan nila business seminar pala tapos sasabihin sa seminar ang membership ganito ganyan so total turned off sayo ng friend or yung tinawagan mo. So iwasan niyo gawin to.

*Yung Wealth Course kuno - Okay lang mag conduct ng wealth course as long walang hidden string attach or for educative purpose lang. But kung ang wealth course mo eh bandang huli mag lalabas ka ng Php 100,000 or higit at pupwersahin mo din sila mangutang aba nakakatakot yun pano kung hindi nila mabayaran utang nila? Eh kung Php 100,000 magtatayo na lang ako ng fitness gym or karinderya or ibang normal na negosyo kesa ipang purchse ko ng product na hindi ko naman kailangan in first place at front loading ang dating nun. Pwede naman may wealth course tapos kung gusto nila mag member sa MLM company magbayad lang kung ano yung mandate amount nung MLM company kinabibilangan mo. Halimbawa kung membership ng company is Php 500 after ng wealth course at gusto nila mag member Php 500 ang ibigay mo. Pwede gamitin ang wealth course for way of convincing people to join your network marketing team as long walang front loading involve.

* Yung iwan gadget for reservation daw ? - Jan lang naman feature sa both INVESTIGATOR at XXX ang UNO dahil sa isang distributor na ganito ang gawiin. Pepwersahin ka iwanan yung gadget mo para reservation daw tapos kung hindi kana interesado mag join pag babawiin mo na gadget mo hindi na ibibigay sayo dahil ang dahilan kuno na process na daw yung membership mo. Walang hiya isa din to sa pampasira ng pangalan hindi lang ng MLM company na kinabibilangan mo kundi pati pangalan mo sirang sira din dito. Sa case ng UNO it's the distributors fault not the compnay itself.

So ito ang mga sumusunod na huwag niyong gagawin. Makakakuha pa rin kayo ng newly sign up distributor basta nasa ayos niyo gagawin ang pag nenetwork marketing.

« Last Edit: Jun 08, 2013, 09:08 AM by truthhunter101 »


lowije_dapogs

  • Forum Expert 500
  • ****
    • Posts: 583
    • Likes Received: +1/-0
Reply #29 on: Jul 20, 2013, 10:22 AM
inimember po q n tita ko sa isang MLM, yung LIFESTYLES. wla pa aqng naintindhan kht ano kc gus2 nya lng dumami dwnline nya na sya dn ang nag abono ng membrshp, reitred US navy ung asawa nya kya wlang prblema sa kapital.

may nsa lifestyles po b d2? sna may mkpgshare ng experiences, mkkbasa po aq kng ok cla o nde..
« Last Edit: Jul 20, 2013, 10:24 AM by lowije_dapogs »


 


Top Recent Posts

topic вы любите фильмы?
[General Questions and Discussions about Money]
Arturo1993pield
Today at 08:24 AM
topic Amount of years of projected cash flows in DCF massively changes valuation resul
[Stocks and Stock Trading]
Gabrial
Today at 03:45 AM
topic What are mutual funds, Why would I want one, and How are they different from hed
[Mutual Funds / UITF / VUL Investing]
Gabrial
Today at 03:33 AM
topic BUSINESS IDEAS to start this year 2019...
[Business, Franchising and Entrepreneurship]
Ishnhelm
Yesterday at 11:27 PM
topic Pa-iwi "Investment" (DV Boer Farm)
[Business, Franchising and Entrepreneurship]
goodfella
Yesterday at 08:24 PM
topic How to Earn Money at this moment Without Leaving your Seat
[Internet and Affiliate Marketing]
kfg52
Yesterday at 06:59 PM
topic For dollar cost averaging: is it best to SELL in fixed amounts of USD or fixed a
[General Questions and Discussions about Money]
Shakalar
Yesterday at 04:09 AM
topic Easy SEO tips to improve search rankings...
[Blogging / SEO / Adsense / Site Monetization]
Shakalar
Yesterday at 01:45 AM
topic Bitcoin reaches new record high, surges past $6,400
[Bitcoin / Dash / Ethereum / LiteCoin / Cryptocurrency Trading]
Emilelerne
Yesterday at 01:33 AM
topic Проверенные игорные слоты на веб-портале avtomati-na-dengi.net 2019
[General Questions and Discussions about Money]
sunny0106
Yesterday at 12:19 AM
topic Надежные игровые аппараты на вебсайте avtomati-na-dengi.net 2019
[General Questions and Discussions about Money]
sunny0106
Yesterday at 12:18 AM
topic Bad Review: WCA TRAVEL and TOURS
[General Questions and Discussions about Money]
Coidor
Oct 19, 2019, 11:36 PM

PMT Shoutbox

Refresh History
  • Post only questions or comments here. Advertisements NOT ALLOWED.
  • whennedy: good noon po
    Oct 18, 2019, 12:04 PM
  • edzlpdac: goood day po sa lahat!
    Oct 12, 2019, 03:37 PM
  • bpc85: ask lng sana ako kung may makukuha ba kami ng Mama ko at ako or mga kapatid ko sa benepisyo ng aming Ama bilang membro ng AFPSLAI. thank you po.
    Sep 27, 2019, 12:52 PM
  • bpc85: Hi guys, im new here,.
    Sep 27, 2019, 12:52 PM
  • Anaperdi: Hi just want to know if meron dito who is into boundary hulog ng motorcycle? For mga riders ng courier. Pwede ba magpashare how it works? Naisip ko lang baka pwede ko ibusiness, meron na pala mga posts online pero di pa clear ang system sa akin. thank  you sa makakapansin
    Sep 21, 2019, 11:32 AM
  • Anaperdi: Hi newbie here..
    Sep 21, 2019, 11:19 AM
  • jprios: May contact ba kayo kung sakali?
    Sep 18, 2019, 06:11 PM
  • jprios: Sino pwedeng mahiraman dito?
    Sep 18, 2019, 06:09 PM
  • kfg52: Present!
    Sep 15, 2019, 07:26 PM
  • juju31: san po ba may nag papahiram dito
    Sep 14, 2019, 07:18 PM
  • juju31: hello
    Sep 14, 2019, 07:18 PM
  • FutureGizmo: Thanks julz! Medyo ganun nga trabaho namin ngayon, to monitor spam posts kasi ang daming spam bots. But thanks for reporting. Auto-ban agad ang spammers sa amin haha
    Sep 07, 2019, 12:17 PM
  • julz: @FutureGizmo si @nikkikv18 just posted more than 10 posts about porn sites. hay, spam.
    Sep 03, 2019, 01:05 PM
  • Cid_brent: sino po dyan pwede magbigay send ng paypal funds and I will pay you using gcash?
    Aug 25, 2019, 08:58 PM
  • Meghan91811: Sino po may alam about Rice Farming...
    Aug 25, 2019, 07:44 AM
  • roselove: hello po sa inyo... newbie here
    Aug 06, 2019, 03:31 PM
  • Niel Jhacoubs: Sino palaging active dito?
    Jul 30, 2019, 04:15 PM
  • dagocjasonrey: Anong update dito?
    Jul 22, 2019, 08:49 PM
  • mark_Lee: anong bago dito
    Jun 28, 2019, 01:03 AM
  • mark_Lee: balita
    Jun 28, 2019, 01:03 AM
  • Lovelyprincess72: hi everyone , I'm newbie here
    Jun 27, 2019, 02:36 PM
  • Niel Jhacoubs: Musta?
    Jun 26, 2019, 01:43 PM
  • Forexanalysis: Hello
    Jun 25, 2019, 06:33 PM
  • Niel Jhacoubs: Hello sa mga online jan! :)
    Jun 15, 2019, 02:58 PM
  • oragon: :applause:
    May 20, 2019, 03:53 PM
  • FutureGizmo: Thank you for reporting those spam posts, oragon! Spam posts now deleted.
    May 20, 2019, 01:59 PM
  • oragon: Admin kindly monitor some peps! posting and sharing inappropriate nude photos and website links
    May 20, 2019, 01:52 PM
  • @culinary10: Hello I am new here! Regarding sa bdo life insurance for 8 years, pwede pa kaya ma refund yung binayad ko na 50k last year? Gusto ko sana icancel kasi lack of financial na, last may 15 2018 po un nag start ako ng life insurance, pinili ko annually kaso etong may 15 2019 wala nako ma ipay so gusto ko sana icash out, may alam ba kayo kung pano marerefund?
    May 17, 2019, 07:56 PM
  • FutureGizmo: Hi Sonny, the posting issue is now resolved. Thanks for informing us! We're currently testing a new, mobile-ready theme so let us us know kung may problema pa sa Forum. :)
    Apr 04, 2019, 10:40 AM
  • sonny.wapak: Nakaka receive din ba kayo nito pag gawa ng new post? "Please try again. If you come back to this error screen, report the error to an administrator."
    Apr 03, 2019, 10:56 PM
  • leonine_zafiro: what product nun?
    Apr 01, 2019, 10:25 PM
  • dhondiex27: hi
    Mar 30, 2019, 10:55 PM
  • lusart: jayrob i agree 200%. hulog ng langit organico. legit na legit
    Mar 29, 2019, 09:08 AM
  • palemelch: Hi
    Mar 28, 2019, 04:08 PM
  • O.C.W._AK: Magandang Araw sa Lahat! Blessings! (",)
    Mar 28, 2019, 08:42 AM
  • thor15: hello everyone, newbie here
    Mar 25, 2019, 01:47 AM
  • captjaylo: present newbie here
    Mar 22, 2019, 10:06 AM
  • balboagilbert26: hello Guys .. Newbie here
    Mar 21, 2019, 10:55 PM
  • businesswoman2019: @jefsanity nag inquire na po ako pero di sila nagdidisclose. Yung branch po kasi na target ko, currently building pa.
    Mar 21, 2019, 04:27 PM
  • jefsanity: @businesswoman2019, much better inquire ka na lang sa admin nila.
    Mar 21, 2019, 01:51 PM
  • businesswoman2019: Hello! Any idea how much ang stall sa waltermart. 2m x 2m
    Mar 21, 2019, 08:28 AM
  • John Neil: Looking for an accredited iron foundry
    Mar 17, 2019, 03:19 PM
  • jayrob: Mark_Lee ung organico legit po yan..  Member din AQ..
    Mar 17, 2019, 12:57 AM
  • perlymelad: Hello po! Need advice, why my new MLM leaders failing?
    Mar 14, 2019, 08:51 PM
  • perlymelad: Present
    Mar 12, 2019, 07:53 PM
  • kennethmauricio: Hi saan po dito pwede mag post ng for sale properties?
    Mar 11, 2019, 07:58 PM
  • jefsanity: @mark_lee isipin mo anu passion mo at skills mo...
    Mar 11, 2019, 06:52 PM
  • sniperaj09: BAGO LANG
    Mar 10, 2019, 11:16 AM
  • mark_Lee: magandang investnent ngayon sa 30k suggest naman keo mga boss
    Mar 10, 2019, 03:07 AM
  • perlymelad: E-BOOK PO SIR @JEFSANITY
    Mar 09, 2019, 05:40 PM