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Condoinvestor a networker scammer

ekimonktoo · 256 · 66027

GoodSteward

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Reply #15 on: Nov 03, 2011, 12:26 AM
Investee turned Scammer typical process:
1.soliciting investments by presenting business plan
2. promise certain rate
3. fulfill obligation by crediting the interest rate promised
4. after a while,investor capital gone.....

Typical Networker and network process:
1.soliciting investments by presenting business plan
2. promise returns
3. fulfill obligation by initial help
4. investor (downline) having difficulty marketing (finding their downline)....
5. after a while, investor capital gone.....

So, may legit excuse ang networker, which is step number 4, which is di ka nagtrabaho, so natural na wala ka nang returns.

But, if the networker promises you dont have to work and you will still earn, then step 4 is eliminated. Then walang pinagkaiba yun process ng Networker sa Sumablay turned Scammer typical process.


So if based on Bp22estafa's post:

I was also invited to join here 2 years ago. But not $777 I think around 270 or equivalent to 16k+, Ym Lang Kami nagchat, I wasn't into mlm as I told him, but was told that I won't have to do anything since siya na bahala sa positioning, that a lot of pmt members are planning to join, that He will help each & everyone from Pmt to earn from it. I wasn't told to attend any meeting or seminars, wait Lang daw ako.
...then Condoinvestor can be considered as a networker scammer.

Btw, "help each and everyone earn from it" is a very fine line....can mean guranteed earn, can mean i just help.....
« Last Edit: Nov 03, 2011, 12:41 AM by GoodSteward »


ferrariEverest

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Reply #16 on: Nov 03, 2011, 12:40 AM
Investee turned Scammer typical process:

Typical Networker and network process:
1.soliciting investments by presenting business plan
2. promise returns
3. fulfill obligation by initial help
4. investor (downline) having difficulty marketing (finding their downline)....
5. after a while, investor capital gone.....

So, may legit excuse ang networker, which is step number 4, which is di ka nagtrabaho, so natural na wala ka nang returns...
good post...
but not necessarily may legit excuse.

we have to mention na may legal at illegal MLM.
base sa sinabi ni Bp22estafa & george88, Pyramiding ang LGN &/or Clixster.
sa totoo & legal na MLM, may consummable, saleable at fair-priced products na kapalit ang entry fee/investment, so hindi masasayang ang capital, whether or not magbenta/magnetwork yung sasali.

since umaasa ang Pyramiding sa recruitment para kumita, kailangan talaga nila maginvite, else d sila kikita. (pag dumami yung hindi nag-invite, magko-collapse ang company)
whereas sa legal MLM, whether or not maginvite ka, pwede ka kumita (thru selling of products since hindi bloated ang price ng products at consummable/really saleable yung products)


GoodSteward

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Reply #17 on: Nov 03, 2011, 12:43 AM
^true ferrari, sorry i forgot to mention sa post ko, im assuming na legit yun network company, and focused the analysis on the person :)


ferrariEverest

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Reply #18 on: Nov 03, 2011, 12:59 AM
i see. no worries Sir...
grabe, it's a spooky day today... dahil sa mga nalaman ko dito ngayon.

d ba pwedeng chicks or sports na lang ang pagusapan para masaya.... hehehh, joke

OT; tungkol kay Ram Revilla, na pinatay... duda ko may kinalaman yun sa mana &/or sakit ni Ramon Revilla Sr.. let's see kung tama hula ko in a few months


TSO

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Reply #19 on: Nov 03, 2011, 01:07 AM
Quote
Investee turned Scammer typical process:
1.soliciting investments by presenting business plan
2. promise certain rate
3. fulfill obligation by crediting the interest rate promised
4. after a while,investor capital gone.....

Typical Networker and network process:
1.soliciting investments by presenting business plan
2. promise returns
3. fulfill obligation by initial help
4. investor (downline) having difficulty marketing (finding their downline)....
5. after a while, investor capital gone.....

So, may legit excuse ang networker, which is step number 4, which is di ka nagtrabaho, so natural na wala ka nang returns.

But, if the networker promises you dont have to work and you will still earn, then step 4 is eliminated. Then walang pinagkaiba yun process ng Networker sa Sumablay turned Scammer typical process.

Just wanna interject...

It's like the point of the whole thing is that the scammer PROMISES returns.

I've been reading a book on "financial fraud" on the personal level (hindi ung accounting fraud; iba yan)... some of the things you have to watch out for are:
[1] Promises or guarantees (not to be confused with a business model that calls for reimbursement)
[2] lack of transparency on operations -- VERY IMPORTANT! The excuse of "Proprietary Information", i.e. ang rason na "secreeeet", is completely unacceptable: example, I can tell people how I analyze and invest in securities without even delving into proprietary information. (In fact, this info can be found on my thread.)
[3] obscurity through complexity -- transparency exists, but scammers try to obfuscate investors by going into things they don't understand. Example would be asking a stock market investor what shorts and longs are, and the person consistently cannot explain it in such a way a stupid and retarded person can understand it.
[4] custodian of investment is the same entity as the investment manager
[5] no specific performance data to date
[6] an integrated marketing pitch emphasizing attention-grabbing and flashy messages
« Last Edit: Nov 03, 2011, 01:10 AM by TSO »


ferrariEverest

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Reply #20 on: Nov 03, 2011, 01:18 AM
thanks for sharing TSO.
valid points


GoodSteward

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Reply #21 on: Nov 03, 2011, 07:22 AM
Just wanna interject...

It's like the point of the whole thing is that the scammer PROMISES returns.

I've been reading a book on "financial fraud" on the personal level (hindi ung accounting fraud; iba yan)... some of the things you have to watch out for are:
[1] Promises or guarantees (not to be confused with a business model that calls for reimbursement)
[2] lack of transparency on operations -- VERY IMPORTANT! The excuse of "Proprietary Information", i.e. ang rason na "secreeeet", is completely unacceptable: example, I can tell people how I analyze and invest in securities without even delving into proprietary information. (In fact, this info can be found on my thread.)
[3] obscurity through complexity -- transparency exists, but scammers try to obfuscate investors by going into things they don't understand. Example would be asking a stock market investor what shorts and longs are, and the person consistently cannot explain it in such a way a stupid and retarded person can understand it.
[4] custodian of investment is the same entity as the investment manager
[5] no specific performance data to date
[6] an integrated marketing pitch emphasizing attention-grabbing and flashy messages

^True, true...and generally points 6-3 falls on the first step of the process- soliciting investment by presenting business plan.

Point number 2- lack of transparency of operations- falls on the part where investee fulfill their obligations by crediting their promised returns. And because investor gets their promised rate, they seldom or even never monitor the operation of the investee's business. And the investee seldom or even never updates the investor of thier operation....

It all boils down to broken promises.
« Last Edit: Nov 03, 2011, 07:24 AM by GoodSteward »


vicces

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Reply #22 on: Nov 03, 2011, 09:21 AM
kung alam mong networking yung inooffer sayo, sapat na red flag na siguro yun for you to be on the cautious side and dapat naintindihan mo na na may recruiting at downline ekek ang mga ganyan. kung di mo yun alam, wag ka ng magtaka kung malugi ka. meron nga noon isa sa mga produkto nila e toothpaste na nakakapayat or nakakagamot daw ng diabetes. sisisihin mo ba ung nagbenta sayo o ang sarili mo for falling for such b.s.? pag sinabi ng networker na "kikita ka dito kahit di ka magrecruit", at naniwala ka, you've been had. wag ka ng tumingin sa iba dahil sorry to say, u only have yourself to blame. yung experience ko sa ganito, i just chalked it up to experience... tutal kaibigan ko ung upline ko, kumita sya, ako hindi. pero wala ng next time.  :cool2:
« Last Edit: Nov 03, 2011, 09:35 AM by vicces »


tops5450

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Reply #23 on: Nov 03, 2011, 09:24 AM

I was also invited to join here 2 years ago. But not $777 I think around 270 or equivalent to 16k+, Ym Lang Kami nagchat, I wasn't into mlm as I told him, but was told that I won't have to do anything since siya na bahala sa positioning, that a lot of pmt members are planning to join, that He will help each & everyone from Pmt to earn from it. I wasn't told to attend any meeting or seminars, wait Lang daw ako. Alam ko maraming nagjoin dito, those I remembered are sirzap, tops, rhipolito & others I can't quite remember. I got convince to join & I remember depositing the money to a bdo or bpi account. After nun wala na me balita about it.

Siguro after a month upon investing, I chanced up sa YM with CI & kinamusta ko investment. May inaayos pa something or someone dun sa upline niya sa abroad. That was the last time I heard anything about it.

I'm not sure if it didn't work out or the mlm group got resolved. But I believed everyone who invested deserve an explaination as to what happened. Personally, I find it odd when I found out He is again encouraging people here to join another mlm investment while some still doesn't know what happened to their previous investments. At the back of my mind, not very professional at all.

I'm not questioning the reputation or trustworthiness of CI. I just need a concrete explanation as to what happened to our investments? Though the amount investment is puny compared to what I've invested with others. I think for all concerned, we deserve or demand an explanation.

Sa akin Lang, bago ka pa mag-offer na Kung ano ano. Ano nangyari sa mga pinangakuan mo na kikita sa Lgn? I think this is a great opportunity for him to settle this issue once & for all. This is long overdue & I bet Hindi alng ako ang nag-aantay ng kasagutan dito.

Di ka nag-iisa sir Bp. Nag-aantay din ako ng closure nitong issueng ito.
« Last Edit: Nov 03, 2011, 09:30 AM by tops5450 »


ghiby

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Reply #24 on: Nov 03, 2011, 11:00 AM
I think ekimonktoo is pertaining to his investment to Lgn prosperity. Below is the thread about it

http://www.pinoymoneytalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=29196.0


I was also invited to join here 2 years ago. But not $777 I think around 270 or equivalent to 16k+, Ym Lang Kami nagchat, I wasn't into mlm as I told him, but was told that I won't have to do anything since siya na bahala sa positioning, that a lot of pmt members are planning to join, that He will help each & everyone from Pmt to earn from it. I wasn't told to attend any meeting or seminars, wait Lang daw ako. Alam ko maraming nagjoin dito, those I remembered are sirzap, tops, rhipolito & others I can't quite remember. I got convince to join & I remember depositing the money to a bdo or bpi account. After nun wala na me balita about it.

Siguro after a month upon investing, I chanced up sa YM with CI & kinamusta ko investment. May inaayos pa something or someone dun sa upline niya sa abroad. That was the last time I heard anything about it.

I'm not sure if it didn't work out or the mlm group got resolved. But I believed everyone who invested deserve an explaination as to what happened. Personally, I find it odd when I found out He is again encouraging people here to join another mlm investment while some still doesn't know what happened to their previous investments. At the back of my mind, not very professional at all.

I'm not questioning the reputation or trustworthiness of CI. I just need a concrete explanation as to what happened to our investments? Though the amount investment is puny compared to what I've invested with others. I think for all concerned, we deserve or demand an explanation.

Sa akin Lang, bago ka pa mag-offer na Kung ano ano. Ano nangyari sa mga pinangakuan mo na kikita sa Lgn? I think this is a great opportunity for him to settle this issue once & for all. This is long overdue & I bet Hindi alng ako ang nag-aantay ng kasagutan dito.

same sentiments with BP22

promised and reason on why I invested to this.
1. Due to his reputation.
2. Promised na di kailangan trabahuhin dahil after 6 months whatever happen he will return the money invested in it.

Now I know that #2 is really a promise which bound to be broken :(

I think 2 yrs ago na rin yung transaction namin dito. That time nagbakasyon ako sa pinas and called him to inquire about the 3% per month investment and he told me that he temporary stop the 3% offer and he has other GOOD investment to offer especially for us OFW and say that some of PMT SG already invested in it. I called the person mention to confirmed yung investment nya and it's true na nag-invest nga yung kakilala kong member ng PMT SG (same understanding dun sa promise na nabanggit ko).

So met CI in White Plains and made the investment with his promised/guaranteed  that he will returned the investment in 6 months time if in case we were not able to explode our group here in Singapore and I even get my brother to join me in this.

I'm not also into MLM but with his reputation and good intention (that time I really believed that he was here to help others to earn) so I join the flock.

When I returned here in SG, I even met other PMT SG here to explain the system dahil personal kong nameet si CI regarding this offer and honestly all of us here (PMT SG active that time) are confident and believed that CI will really returned our initial investment after 6 months. I know another 2 persons in PMT SG invested to this but since di na kame active ngayon so di ko na alam kung ano na update dun sa investment nila. 

I'm not blaming anybody here, I'm just sharing my experienced on the investment as well as on the person who introduced this investment. And now I know that good intentions and good reputation alone doesn't jive with a good investment return, it's a costly experience I may say.


vicces

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Reply #25 on: Nov 03, 2011, 11:18 AM
^ may money-back guarantee? hmmm, smells like fish in here...


george88

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Reply #26 on: Nov 03, 2011, 12:00 PM
Tinatamad na ako basahin lahat ang haba ng mga reply  :coffee:...For me hindi naman scam ang ginawa ni CI ang mahirap lang is yung iwanan ka ng salita yes it's not promise but in other words  "word of trust"  at ang nagpahirap pa dun lalo walang RULES ang mga sinalihan nyang company na product return if you want to back out which is so unfair. Tapos malalaman mo after a few months nasa ibang company na naman. For me there is no perfect comp plan, no perfect company, no perfect product sa kahit anong business sabi nga ng chinese friend ko it's always on the people. So the result of what he did is no more will trust him again to be his follower and thinking that he just after the money in network marketing business d2 sa pmt. Sabagay madami pa naman tao sa pinas 22M pa ang pwede mo kausapin so malawak pa rin ang market hehe  :rakenrol:... Tama nga si Eddy Chai hindi investment ang networking marketing but a real business that you need to work hard and put it in your heart and the only thing you need to invest is this field is "TIME"  :book: Natuto naman ako sa kanya eh na pinakawalang kwentang comp plan ay ang MATRIX CYCLE and another rust of Network Marketing Industry...
« Last Edit: Nov 03, 2011, 12:33 PM by george88 »


rhipolito

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Reply #27 on: Nov 03, 2011, 12:04 PM
Same here, waiting for the closure of the LGN from CI.


george88

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Reply #28 on: Nov 03, 2011, 12:40 PM
Sabi sakin ng isang taga PMT d2. Masyado daw mataas si CondoInvestor unreactive lang daw sya sa mga ganitong issue . So wala na tayo magagawa ibaon na lang sa limot learning experience na lang medyo mahal nga lang pero maliit lang yan compare sa mga experience ng mga sobrang successful na tao ngayon like steve jobs, henry sy, pacquaio etc etc  :bob:...Basta ako international MLM na lang ipupush ko dito...Lahat na ata ng kabulastugan sa MLM industry nangyari na d2 sa pinas... :peace:
« Last Edit: Nov 03, 2011, 12:42 PM by george88 »


GoodSteward

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Reply #29 on: Nov 03, 2011, 01:02 PM
Sabi sakin ng isang taga PMT d2. Masyado daw mataas si CondoInvestor unreactive lang daw sya sa mga ganitong issue . So wala na tayo magagawa ibaon na lang sa limot learning experience na lang medyo mahal nga lang pero maliit lang yan compare sa mga experience ng mga sobrang successful na tao ngayon like steve jobs, henry sy, pacquaio etc

Ewan ko lantg ha, pero sa pagka-subaybay ko lagi dito sa PMT,eto ang nakikita kong pattern with Boss Condo, at eto ay aking observation lamang:

Whenever nasa hot seat siya like now, tahimik lang yan..pag lumipas na, mabubuhay ulit mga threads niya, it will either be started by someone na magiinquire about investment options or someone thanking him for passive income....

Ewan natin kung mauulit yun ganyang cycle, only time can tell...

But one thing is for sure (aking opinion lamang), he is reading this thread anonymously.....

Btw, i can never go wrong with this post...(with one small loophole for Boss Condo to commit, will tell kapag nangyari) hehehe
1. If nagreact siya now and breaks his silence, provocation sucessful...
2. If sumulpot uli siya after some time when all of these cool down, i told you so, another cycle...
3. Kung hindi na siya bumalik ever, that means, PMT  blood sucked dry na, why waste time market here when there are more newer fresher venues where he can employ his marketing strategy...
« Last Edit: Nov 03, 2011, 01:12 PM by GoodSteward »


 


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