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How to Invest in UITF (Unit Investment Trust Funds) - Part 2

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bilagan2004

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Ya, but there are exceptions. Odyssey high conviction is mentally ill even in a bull market. I have a huge huge huge 10k placement  so I know...lol

And last year even everyone is genius, security bank isthe einstein. Haha

Boss GS ano nga ba ang nangyari sa BPI odyssey funds, puro kulelat na ngaun kahit bull times, kulelat pa rin. Before I heard, their funds are the top performers. Buti na pull-out ko agad ang investment ko s knila coz of charges, kungdi mas malaki pa nalugi ko as of now.


GoodSteward

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Boss GS ano nga ba ang nangyari sa BPI odyssey funds, puro kulelat na ngaun kahit bull times, kulelat pa rin. Before I heard, their funds are the top performers. Buti na pull-out ko agad ang investment ko s knila coz of charges, kungdi mas malaki pa nalugi ko as of now.

I know right? I heard may anomaly dun sa fund manager nila. Di ko alam if thats the reason of their fund performance malfunction. Post ko yun link whwn i find it...


yanggaw014

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Hello, Im a newbie here. I have a UITF in BDO and hopefully maging successful ang first investment ko.  :D


freefront

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^Checkout Security bank equity fund. Last years best performer, 48% if im not mistaken.

I dont know if they can be consistent though. BPI High conviction fund used to be the best, now its the worst. UBP equity fund, i cant remember which year , naging top performer din, but now mediocre at best.



SECB? Really? Baka beginner's luck lang GS? As in 1 yr.old lang yung fund at tumama sa bull market? I'm flirting with the idea of converting religion tuloy  :D MF to UITF for 2015  :watchuthink:


GoodSteward

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SECB? Really? Baka beginner's luck lang GS? As in 1 yr.old lang yung fund at tumama sa bull market? I'm flirting with the idea of converting religion tuloy  :D MF to UITF for 2015  :watchuthink:

Welcome back freefront! I missed your alien english!!! Its a compliment :)

Oonga e, kaya its really hard to pick who will perform well, ika nga past performance doesnot guarantee future performance. Ok yun shift ng "religion" mo, baka magka enlightenment ka lalo. I think the good thing with your shift is as always, sa UITF, yun sales load wala na, and more convenient for you pag the "church" ( branch of bank of your uitf choice)  is nearer to you  :) Buti na lang you dont plan to forsake completely and thinking no good fruit will return, and to not invest at all!
« Last Edit: Jan 16, 2015, 09:29 AM by GoodSteward »


freefront

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^Rumor has it my MF was hit with an analyst's choice of CPG. Thus, the less than 2% return in 2013. Probably another lackluster performance for 2014( i haven't seen the report yet). It's nasty to just sit it out. There is no change in personnel either.

As for forsaking the exercise, well, as usual, nothing wrong with the concept. It's da people, is all. Parang failed relationship din yan  ;) Be grateful for the good parts. Render the bad parts for the life lessons. Being in the freezer is not an option  :hihi:


alacrity

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Guys, it may come as a surprise to you but in the long run, Exchange Traded Funds are better.

Tignan ninyo yung mga quarterly performance letters na pinapadala ng UITF's ninyo, hanapin niyo lang yung phrase na worded something like this "Past performance are not guarantees of future returns". Disclaimer nila yan para hindi sila mademanda dahl -2% ang performance nila this year pero last year nag 37%.

Ang titignan ninyo na UITF's or MF's ay yung fees nila, i-total ninyo lahat ng percentage fees, pag umabot to ng lagpas or equal to 2.0 -2.5% per annum e tumakbo ka na. Hindi nagsisinungaling ang mga studies na nagpapakita na 2/3 or MF's at UITF's ay hindi natatalo ang Index.

Ngayon nga 29% ang return from ETF's walang fees yun. Isipin mo kung parang Philequity yung fund mo pag less than P 5,000 e 3.5% ang kaltas agad sa returns mo. E kung 10 years? Tapos yearly ka maghulog ng P5,000 e di 35%! Hindi ninyo ito maririning sa mga nagbebenta ng MF's. Ang consensus ng mga academics ngayon ay negligible ang "skill" factor sa pagpili ng stocks, and all the while yun ang dahilan kung bakit ka nasa MF or UITF, for the so called skill of the "professional" stock pickers over us amateur investors.

I have to admit na meron pa rin ako individual stock picks pero unti unti nang lumalaki yung ETF port ko.

« Last Edit: Jan 18, 2015, 06:11 PM by alacrity »


freefront

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^ Ang tanong: may core holding at trading account ba yang ETF mo  :D alac, 1 yr. old na pala ETF. Mag-isa pa rin ang FMETF hanggang ngayon di ba?

To revisit:

http://www.pinoymoneytalk.com/forum/index.php?topic=45652.15

It is a closed fund so the price appreciation will depend upon demand from investors. Right?



GoodSteward

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@alacrity, thanks! May I know which etf ka meron? Under which bank? Hindi siya under ng uitf product?

@ff, fmetf is first metro etf?

« Last Edit: Jan 18, 2015, 04:09 PM by GoodSteward »


freefront

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^Yep. I  searched PSE site and it's still the only one. Matignan nga ang chart nyan kung mas mahinahon hehehe


alacrity

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@freefront

I've read their prospectus way back 2013. I don't think First Metro, which is under Metrobank will gamble with its name and take us (ETF buyers) on that slippery slope of selling something they don't have. Of course I can't prove they REALLY have it, but I think the chances they will screw us for such small peanuts is slim. Mag-isa pa rin pero meron din gumagaya gaya ng BPI's PSE Index Fund which is not a true Index Fund in the first place.

@GoodSteward

No prob, sa FMETF nga ako, kasi so far yun lang talaga ang totoong stock index fund/ETF dito sa Pilipinas. Yung sa BPI PSE "Index Fund" kasi ang laki ng fees parang usual na UITF nasa 1.5% ata, if I recall correctly. Which is against the concept of owning an ETF in the first place kasi nga kaya natatalo ng ETF ang MF at UITF dahil sa fees ng MF at UITF.

You would think that 1.5% per annum is very small to pay for "skill" pero pag susumahin mo, yung ETF 29% returns ngayon kahit walang active manager, and isa pa ilang MF at UITF ba ang may 29% returns?

 May mga nakita ako naka 30% sila pero dapat minus fees pa rin yun, so kung naka 30% ka, minues 1.5% is 28%, so talo ka pa rin!

Anyway matagal ko na kasi nabasa yung ETF's/Index Fund, bago sa atin pero sa US alam na alam na nila gamitin yan, pwede mo nga rin yan gamitin sa arbitrage kapag nagkaroon na ng short selling sa PSE.

If you want to compare ETF's to MF's/UITF's I suggest you get John C. Bogle's book, he was the one responsible for creating the Vanguard index Fund in the US, his book is called "Bogle on Mutual Funds: New Perspectives for the Intelligent Investor".
« Last Edit: Jan 18, 2015, 06:32 PM by alacrity »


LiveLoveInvest

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How about Security Bank's equity uitf? I think nasa 48% ang ytd niya last 2014. How do you compare it with ETF?

That 19% difference is something to consider :)
« Last Edit: Jan 18, 2015, 07:32 PM by LiveLoveInvest »


freefront

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@freefront

I've read their prospectus way back 2013. I don't think First Metro, which is under Metrobank will gamble with its name and take us (ETF buyers) on that slippery slope of selling something they don't have. Of course I can't prove they REALLY have it, but I think the chances they will screw us for such small peanuts is slim. Mag-isa pa rin pero meron din gumagaya gaya ng BPI's PSE Index Fund which is not a true Index Fund in the first place.

My bad  :(  I was thinking about a few members on this site who handle their ports in a mixed style. GS was in here and I remembered he posted in the Stocks section his core holdings and his trading account< presumably so he can play tsupitero once in a while. So if I go ETF, I'll probably play it that way, too, being that it is traded online and as you say, fees don't matter much.  Which means, this is not the account to be enrolled in PERA because of pre-termination penalties, blah blah blah.....

I guess I was asking in a roundabout way, being that you're the one who jumped in early, if you have been familiarized with ETF enough to say---yes you can trade ETF for profit, as opposed to holding it up to retirement.
* na brown-out yung original post ko kaya maiksi na lang yung na-post sa una. something is telling me something yata








alacrity

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@freefront

Of course you can trade them for profit, but like all speculation the chance of failing is high as the day to day price action of the market is unpredictable. However, I have a friend who did just that, albeit on a monthly timetable rather than day to day. It was back in 2014 when the ETF just came out. Instead of going up from the offering price of 100, it went down to 97, my friend bought at 97 and after some months sold at 115.

I guess in that way he was trading for quick profits, but really, it's hard to profit on a daily basis or even monthly basis, because more transactions mean more costs which is defeating the purpose of ETF's. If you really want big money, then it's better to wait for short selling to be allowed, that's IF you know how to play that game without ending up broke and shirtless because shorting is really dangerous i.e. unlimited losses. But hey whatever floats your boat, I don't judge.

And with regards to your question about investor demand dictating the price, yes it can happen but seeing as the market is efficient as it is, the price will eventually go down towards the real value.

On PERA enrollment, yes you are correct, the fees in here are negligible in the long run because you will only spend transaction costs which is 1% or even less? Certainly lower than any MF/UITF. So enrolling it in PERA won't do it much good.


GoodSteward

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http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/video/business/01/20/15/sb-equity-funds-stock-picks-2015

kabit im thor. hehe


freefront

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@freefront

I guess in that way he was trading for quick profits, but really, it's hard to profit on a daily basis or even monthly basis, because more transactions mean more costs which is defeating the purpose of ETF's. If you really want big money, then it's better to wait for short selling to be allowed, that's IF you know how to play that game without ending up broke and shirtless because shorting is really dangerous i.e. unlimited losses. But hey whatever floats your boat, I don't judge.

I'm a small time participant and short selling is not my kind type insanity. I might simultaneously post a low bid and high ask price on GTC on the same stock, both covered by my own shares and funds available because that's all my "skills" will allow me  :hihi:
Quote
And with regards to your question about investor demand dictating the price, yes it can happen but seeing as the market is efficient as it is, the price will eventually go down towards the real value.

In a scenario where the trend of the market is already priced in, and nobody is selling because it makes sense to be in there, dangling a higher bid price can tempt a human being to sell for a bit of practicing the " a bird in hand is better than the one in the bushes"  :D Take a 5 peso profit in 3 months or get rich in 30 years ( if that account is for retirement). Put back the proceeds of the sale ( the mother shares plus the earnings) when it's reasonable to do so, while putting in fresh funds-> if you are practicing PCA. We all know there will be corrections.

^It's my POV, born out of exploring the world outside of PMT and leaning towards the conclusion that the PSE is too jockeyed and corruption of all sorts is just crapping up the place.

Quote
On PERA enrollment, yes you are correct, the fees in here are negligible in the long run because you will only spend transaction costs which is 1% or even less? Certainly lower than any MF/UITF. So enrolling it in PERA won't do it much good.

Out of the question to trade it if it is enrolled in PERA. Too many paperwork, fees- not to mention the penalty clause because of the tax credit going in. But, if you are going to do Bo's Jack en Jill style, enrolling an ETF account in PERA makes sense. * February 2015- available na according to press release


bajoyjoy

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How about Security Bank's equity uitf? I think nasa 48% ang ytd niya last 2014. How do you compare it with ETF?

That 19% difference is something to consider :)

48%!!! My gosh, SECB is really making a name as a trader bank (and it seems SECB's stock price is reflective of this performance)! Sa wealth sec (philequity) sana ako papasok this year, but with this info, I got interested with SB fund bigla... thanks for the info!




bajoyjoy

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wait lang... SECB had several underwriting of IPOs last year diba? Parang yung X and another one? Is that where they scooped up that +48% performance?



GoodSteward

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wait lang... SECB had several underwriting of IPOs last year diba? Parang yung X and another one? Is that where they scooped up that +48% performance?



They "bet" on NIKL, DNL daw and it is part of their grat returns accordingto the interview on ANC.

Im not from SB ha. But I found out there banking system is so convenient. You can move UITF funds and savings online!

From uitf  money market fund, to euity fund  to savings to any uitf funds at no cost.

Minimum holding period is 7 days for all types of funds (if i remember right).

Redeeming equity funds to savings is only one day. Unlike BDO (7days!)

UITF in security bank, no more certificates, online lahat. If youre computer illeterate, you can just call your branch and they will do the transferring for you.

Manager is a friend, so naexplain sa akin ng maayos...hehe


pilyong_husband

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Hmnn..

I sent an inquiry to open UITF to SECB but no reply at all. suplado ata Trust Marketing nila :)


alacrity

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@GoodSteward

Same with BPI Express Online, although it would take around 1-2 days to get hold of your money.

But how's the system of SECB? Have you ever had unscheduled down times? Do they ever close the sit for maintenance?


GoodSteward

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@GoodSteward

Same with BPI Express Online, although it would take around 1-2 days to get hold of your money.

But how's the system of SECB? Have you ever had unscheduled down times? Do they ever close the sit for maintenance?

i just opened an account this past tuesday, so will have to observe still :)


mxherr5

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@alacrity,

I've had an account with SECB since July last year.
No downtime yet but I only log in once or twice a month
compared to BPI where I log in more frequently.


Jayumaster

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Bakit ang layo ng difference ng performance ng Security Bank sa Peso Equity compared sa iba?

Does that mean magsisimula na ang downtrend niya this year?

Should I redeem everything now and sit on cash waiting na tumaas ulit siya?

Sa mga masters, please help po. tanong lang.


GoodSteward

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^^ equity funds - they pick their stock choices from PSEI. It so happened their stock choices performed great.

We dont know how well their portfolio will perform this year. If you trust their fund manager, then just hold or add.

Pero kung super bagsak buong mercado (psei), most likely bagask din performance ng local equity funds. at this point, paliitan na ng lugi ang mga fund managers. Hehe


Jayumaster

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Sa ngayon generally upward parin naman siya in 0.01 daily nav increments. I was just thinking baka bukas makalawa biglang bumaba. lalo na ngayong may tension na naman sa Mindanao. May pang-dagdag ako maliit pero nagiisip muna kung dagdag ko ba or maghintay pa ng kaunti. Still not making a decision.  :thankyou: :thankyou:


joshboz

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kung down ang nikl down si sb securities ganun lang un...hihihi anyway i still have faith with security bank uitf until dey change the fund manager or end of da bull run hihihihi.cheers


Jayumaster

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Alam ko dalawang locations ng Nikl nasa Mindanao kasi. Tapos sabay pa yang tension sa Bangsamoro Basic Law. If events go awry baka maapektuhan ang logistics kaya medyo worried din.


rodeo

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PSE is down for two consecutive days, tomorrow is the good entry to buy Equity Fund UITF from the banks, better if the market is still down tomorrow, getting a much lower NAVpu....
« Last Edit: Feb 03, 2015, 01:36 PM by rodeo »


sephjo

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Mga sir/mam isang poko seafarer, nagstart napo ko mag invest sa UITF Equity, tanong kolang po kung wala ba talagang form para po indicate kung sino yung beneficiary ko at paano nila maclaim ung investment ko incase may mangyare hindi inaasahan tulad ng pagkamatay. Nagtanong po kasi ako dun sa bank ng pinagapplyan ko ng UITF pero wala naman po nasagot at sabe lang na marame daw iprocess kung sakale mangyare iyon.

Wala po malinaw na kasagutan, at ngaun po mejo nagaalala ako. Paano poba ang sistema kung halimbawa mademise ung investor/ trustor magiging subject hoba iyon sa estate tax at maho-hold ng Philippine Government? Ano po ang kelangan gawin ng aking beneficiary ano po ung mga steps? Kung subject po iyon sa estate tax halimbawa nasa P5 mil napo ang total investment amount nasa magkano po ang estate tax na kelangan bayaran ng isang beneficiary?



Sheikmaktoum

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Mga sir/mam isang poko seafarer, nagstart napo ko mag invest sa UITF Equity, tanong kolang po kung wala ba talagang form para po indicate kung sino yung beneficiary ko at paano nila maclaim ung investment ko incase may mangyare hindi inaasahan tulad ng pagkamatay. Nagtanong po kasi ako dun sa bank ng pinagapplyan ko ng UITF pero wala naman po nasagot at sabe lang na marame daw iprocess kung sakale mangyare iyon.

Wala po malinaw na kasagutan, at ngaun po mejo nagaalala ako. Paano poba ang sistema kung halimbawa mademise ung investor/ trustor magiging subject hoba iyon sa estate tax at maho-hold ng Philippine Government? Ano po ang kelangan gawin ng aking beneficiary ano po ung mga steps? Kung subject po iyon sa estate tax halimbawa nasa P5 mil napo ang total investment amount nasa magkano po ang estate tax na kelangan bayaran ng isang beneficiary?

^^ Incase makukuha naman yan Sir. long process nga lang. What I did is "and" "or" with your wife ;)


djBern

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Hello all,

I am a Filipino Canadian and I have a bank account with BPI. I want to open a UITF but was just wondering if I will be taxed on any gains/income?

Does anybody know?



ultimate

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According to CRA .  I don't declare mine as it is not substantial.


djBern

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According to CRA .  I don't declare mine as it is not substantial.

Thanks for the link.

What about the Philippines side? If I'm not a Filipino Citizen then I guess I don't need to declare? Or will the bank automatically withhold taxes for the government?


kobabear

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^^ Incase makukuha naman yan Sir. long process nga lang. What I did is "and" "or" with your wife ;)

If I remember correctly, in any joint account whether "AND" or "OR", the surviving partners are obligated by law to declare the death of the other partner. Please check.


amboy65

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Question lang po,
1.) Example may 1000 units investment ako sa UITF nung 2014, will it remain 1000 units in 2020 kahit nag up and down ang NAVPU
2.) Ang fees ba is deducted bago ipost ang NAVPU (daily )or annual?
         


kobabear

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Question lang po,
1.) Example may 1000 units investment ako sa UITF nung 2014, will it remain 1000 units in 2020 kahit nag up and down ang NAVPU
2.) Ang fees ba is deducted bago ipost ang NAVPU (daily )or annual?
         

Answers:
1. The number of units is constant regardless of the NAVPU.
2. Yes and daily.



palailai

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BDO has a new UITF called BDO Equity Index Fund.  Trust Fee is only 1%, launched Jul 10, 2015...Trust Fee is lower as compared to BPI Phil Equity Index Fund.


kobabear

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Sir, available na ba to sa mga provincial branches?

Meron din kc sila BDO INSTITUTIONAL RESERVE CASH RESERVE FUND pero sabi ng branch manager, di pa available sa branch.

Pwede naman daw ito sa individual investors.

Any ideas?


povillo

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Invested in PNB High Dividend Fund last April from a NAV of 1.55 now at 1.47, Any advise if need to transfer my investment to other banks? Also im aware that Security Bank UITF is far from its performance as compared to last year. How about BPI? TIA.


kobabear

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Most of the funds are on the downward bias in the short term plus you entered during the peak. A lot is happening currently like Greece, Commodities, China and the FEDrus .Transferring to other Equity UITF will not improve your position now but you MIGHT be better in the long term.


bestfarmtreats

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Hi to all UITF investors. I'm new to investing and I'm looking at UITF to start my journey. Would it be wise to invest a huge amount of money (i.e. 100,000) right now since the market is down? Thanks!


TulogSaPancitan

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Hi to all UITF investors. I'm new to investing and I'm looking at UITF to start my journey. Would it be wise to invest a huge amount of money (i.e. 100,000) right now since the market is down? Thanks!

if ur uitf is equity linked it is usually a good time to enter if market is down. but then again if ur doing cost averaging, anytime is a good time. if i may suggest, split ur 100k into 3 or 4 and buy in the succeeding months. we don’t know yet if the low yesterday is the bottom.

ciao!


wilch23

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Hi to all UITF investors. I'm new to investing and I'm looking at UITF to start my journey. Would it be wise to invest a huge amount of money (i.e. 100,000) right now since the market is down? Thanks!

If you are below 30 yrs old, don't need this money for at least 10 years, can afford to lose 100,000.00, then YES, THIS IS A GOOD TIME to get an equity linked UITF



jenofstructures

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bakit ang BDO guys kung magadvice about UITF parang ayaw kang maginvest. Buti pa sa BPI at Security Bank maganda magpaliwanag mga tao nila. Pero ung paliwanag na may pros and cons hindi puro magaganda lang


povillo

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Any update about current UITFs. Any forecast for it  now all are in the negative's


jmces

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uitf info are here http://www.uitf.com.ph/

please do not believe in forecast, ask a so called guru and a monkey and the probabilty of each one being correct is just the same.


wilch23

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uitf info are here http://www.uitf.com.ph/

please do not believe in forecast, ask a so called guru and a monkey and the probabilty of each one being correct is just the same.

Naturalmente, an investor is interested in what WILL HAPPEN in the FUTURE.
That link is history, ergo of little use as well, tama ba?
So sayeth this monkey.


ghanie

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if ur uitf is equity linked it is usually a good time to enter if market is down. but then again if ur doing cost averaging, anytime is a good time. if i may suggest, split ur 100k into 3 or 4 and buy in the succeeding months. we don’t know yet if the low yesterday is the bottom.

ciao!

Mas okay ba split and buy from different banks or isang bank lang and different UITFs?
I just redeemed my bond fund and planning to get another equity fund sana.


yagami_kira

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If you intend to split and buy from different banks, then better just buy the most low-cost index fund you can find. BDO Equity index fund with 1% trust fee per year is the lowest among UITF equity index funds in the country.


jenofstructures

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Mas okay ba split and buy from different banks or isang bank lang and different UITFs?
I just redeemed my bond fund and planning to get another equity fund sana.

Depende yan sayo kung kaya mo bantayan ang maraming account. I think merong member ditto sa PMT na maraming uitf in various banks dahil kaya nya (si GS ata yun). May mga taon kasi na ok ang secb, minsan BPI o kaya BDO



switchiz

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I have UITF accounts with various banks. I, for the most part, have stopped contributing to some. I now only subscribe to low cost equity Index funds.


palailai

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management fee of index funds in R.P. is the same with actively managed funds...dapat mas lower pa ang Mngt Fee kasi passively managed ang  funds..


wilch23

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switchiz

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Meron akong PhilEquity Funds pero hindi muna ko naglalagay sa kanya. Nagtry ako ng PhilEquity PSE Index Fund nila.


Ryex321

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good morning! Im new here, Gusto ko lang sana matuto mag invest at nabasa ko ung sa bpi or sa bdo equity? magkano kaya start neto para makapag invest ako. let say mag invest ako 20k for how long? sorry wala ako masyado pa knowledge . ngbabasa basa palang ako. suggest naman po.


jesa

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paano po ba magregister sa uitf bago lang po ako salamat


stanelope

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Kakainvest ko Lang sa uitf BDO peso balanced fund. Ang shared unit ko is 2.599 ung invested amount ko 10000 nung may5,2017.
Holding period nya is 30 days ibig ba sabihin nito dapat di ko sya galawin or redeem kahit tumaas ung psei or navpu. Masyadong mataas psei ung pagkakainvest ko.


jenofstructures

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paano po ba magregister sa uitf bago lang po ako salamat


Go to your bank and enroll your account sa uitf. Dapat alam mo kung ano yung gusto mong uitf. Research, reasearch, research. Because, kapag pumunta sa bangko at nagtanong ka ukol sa uitf, most of the time sasabihin nilang di maganda maginvest don tapos magooffer sila ng bago nilang investment product.


wilch23

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jenofstructures

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^^^^ oo lalo na yung humahanap ng daan. Sasabihin wag ka maginvest jan, may bago kaming investment product mas maganda, makita mo insurance


icgb

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im kind of overwhelmed sa topics about investing. I spend most of my time self educating with this topic... right now im doing my research about uitf, maybe what im asking is.. once u started investing do u just wait whether mag gain or loss? or does it work like in trading where you buy and sell stocks?


jenofstructures

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when it comes to uitf, i just put it there. Bahala na fund manager sa kanya. Though konti lang kasi nakalagay don


leonine_zafiro

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depende, yung MF purely investment, while VUL have insurance. message me we can help


editas_farm

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Hi guys any suggestions for PNB uitf products thanks and much appreciated


 


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