Rural banks under the Legacy Financial Group offering 20% p.a. (Part 2)

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[AMARANTH]

This is very troubling......the explanation given to us by these banks including the bulos's first country bank is that that earned marginally more by microlending where the method was copied from nobel prize winner yunos of bangladesh.  But what escaped our scrutny is if they do lend it? did anybody see a large lineup of teachers in their banks or asked the teachers themsleves or whoever else whom they may claim to lent?   Heck!, even the bulos themselves have to proved that their first country bank did really lend it to the teachers as well!

Supposedly as we discussed before even if they turned out to be a scam as long as its pdic insured then there is nothing to fear....but now im hearing fake ctd's !?! what the hell!  explosion, what do you mean by outside the bank premises?  does it mean they issue the ctd on the spot after giving them your money less legitimate signatures?  and if one transacted outside the bank premises but did received the checks and cleared, did those you refered to bounced immediately?


To all forumers who deposited, if for example that banco paranaque would only last 5 more months because the complaints and the accusations concernng celso's history are legitmate except that your deposits are insured, would you pull it out now?

[2slick]

first of all, i would like to welcome  The_Businessman at PMT

 

Please stop trying to disguise that you are doing what you are doing because you care for the people, for the depositors because what is being done here  is plain and simple economic sabotage. One need not be a rocket scientist to realize that what is happening is an ugly Board fight between previous and current officers of the bank.  It is the ultimate goal of the group of the former owners to force the bank into bankruptcy. For whatever reasons, it is known only to them.

korak, basahin ninyo ulit yung mga post ni explosion, o kaya i copy ninyo sa msword yung lahat ng post niya, may makikita kayong inconsistency.  

The bank has already lowered its savings account interest rate to a measly 3-4%/annum. Proof of the bank’s liquidity. The duration of the double your money program is no longer 5 years but 6 years now. The interest is now only 16-17% for 5 years. Postdated checks as interest are handed out at the moment of the placement of the TD. This can be deposited on the date itself without any delay. The advanced interest on 6-year TDs are also released and can be deposited or en-cashed right away.

hmm, changing terms, in the hyip world once a program changes it's terms, it means a red flag.

anyways, given all the facts those who wish to join the program or in the program, good luck na lang sa inyo

[naturalbornkiller]

To all forumers who deposited, if for example that banco paranaque would only last 5 more months because the complaints and the accusations concernng celso's history are legitmate except that your deposits are insured, would you pull it out now?

I won't.   What I did, though, was to get bank certifications for my CTDs.   I tried to have these verified with pdic and per pdic, they do not verify these things until the bank is within their jurisdiction.   I'll try with BSP.

[richpulubi]

It is good to have a rather complete picture of the situation. We do know that rural banks lend at a shocking rate of 36%per annum to microbusinesses. All this, collateral-free. But who among us would actually go to a rural bank to open a savings account? In fact, almost none of them have ATM's. None of them spend for advertising. Where will they get the money to lend out to their clients? Therefore a number of them came out with these DYM's and high interst rate CTD's. The fact that some banks not connected with Legacy also have DYM's show the legitimacy of this practice. I have 'diversified' by putting money in First Country and G7, and will soon be looking into Makati Rural Bank, all unrelated, all non- Legacy. I am looking out for more. In the present uncertainty of equity funds and continous decline of bond funds(which I am disposing of), I have chosen to invest in these small banks. Principal guaranteed pa!

[mykl]

@amaranth- i've been looking at the rbp product for months now and i've been in touch with a number of agents here in PMT. one question that made me hesitant to make a deposit is the rbp's claim that the deposit funds are lent out to teachers, etc.

maraming factors bakit ako napaisip (mga opinyon ko lang po ito):
- may mga ibang sources of funds or loan vehicles na pwedeng utangan ang mga public school teachers na mas mura pa ang interest. kahit life insurance companies ay may special loan programs for teachers. malaking market ang public school teachers kaya talagang may mga special products ang mga malalaking kumpanya para sa market niche na ito. siguro naman ay uunahin na muna nila ang mga mas murang pautang na ito bago ang rural banks.

- matindi ang admin work na required dito, considering na high volume transactions ito. from collection, payment recon, upload, monitoring of bad debts, etc. nagtataka ako kung paano naproprocess ng rbp ito sa branch offices nila. 'di naman ganun kadami ang back office staff nila ng magpunta ako. 'di rin naman masasabi na centralized sa isang main branch ang processing dahil 'localized' naman ang mga pautang nila 'di ba?

just sharing some of my thoughts...

[salingpusa]

Please stop trying to disguise that you are doing what you are doing because you care for the people, for the depositors because what is being done here  is plain and simple economic sabotage.

Unless we see the evidence, we cannot say that there is a disguise.. let the truth comes out. Let those who have issues come forward and show the real score. Let us not stop until we see the truth!  
Posted on: Jun 27, 2007, 08:27 AM

To all forumers who deposited, if for example that banco paranaque would only last 5 more months because the complaints and the accusations concernng celso's history are legitmate except that your deposits are insured, would you pull it out now?

If my placement is within the coverage of pdic, I will continue on..we really do not know if it will last only 5 months or more..nobody is sure.. similarly when we entrust our money to any bank.. we made the decision thinking that just incase something unfavorable happens to the bank, our deposit is insured.  

[2slick]

In the present uncertainty of equity funds and continous decline of bond funds(which I am disposing of), I have chosen to invest in these small banks. Principal guaranteed pa!

magandang diversification nga itong mga rural banks na ito,

back to rbp the very lease question now is

"How can you determine of the ctd issued by rbp is fake or not ?"

I think the legitimacy of the ctd's  will determine if your principal is insured or not by the pdic.  i set aside muna natin yung mga issues regarding Celso Angeles saka kung kelan tatagal yung bank.  

Basta ang importante paano tayo kikita dito at mababalik yung mga deposits if ever na magsara ang bank.

[Bitster]

Please double check. East asia bank ltd. is close. We have a Sentral Bank official document dated this April 2007.
Posted on: Jun 26, 2007, 08:15 PM

Explosion, forgive my expression but to say Bank of East Asia (BEA) is 'close' is incorrect!

If it is not this Bank, but some other, not p[art of the Legacy Group, than why mention it?

How come you 'claim' to have  "Sentral Bank official document dated this April 2007" yet no mention of this on bsp website?

Please send a scanned copy of this official document to hi.interest.rural.banks.ph@gmail.com and I will get it verified, and report my findings here?

Banko Sentral ng Pilipinas lists current Banks and  Banco of East Asia (Bangko Rural de Visayas, Inc.) is listed:-

http://www.bsp.gov.ph/banking/directory.asp?BankName=East+Asia&InstitutionTypeID=&submit=Find

No. Institution Type of Bank Contact No.
1.
 Banco of East Asia (Bangko Rural de Visayas, Inc.)
 Rural Banks (RBs)
 (032)272-6241; 489-8132; 333-2495
 
Also any Bank that is closed by the Monetary Board, a circular letter is issued.

A 'Search' on bsp website did not reveal any such Circular Letter announcing closure of
 Banco of East Asia (Bangko Rural de Visayas, Inc.)

There is a Bank with the name 'East Asia' in it's title, that was closed, but not  Banco of East Asia (Bangko Rural de Visayas, Inc.).
http://www.bsp.gov.ph/regulations/regulations.asp?type=2

Prohibit East Asia (AEA) Capital Corporation (EACC), an investment house with quasi-banking authority, from doing business in ...

So Explosion, why dont you present any facts for you unsubstantiated allegations?
Give the url showing the circular letter issued by Banko Sentral ng Pilipinas.  The pdic announcement etc.

I for one have CTD's issued by (BEA)  Banco of East Asia (Bangko Rural de Visayas, Inc.)

We also have Bank Certification of these Deposits - not because of all these rumours, but as 'evidence of wealth' to support my asawa's recent uk visitor Visa application.  

David

[mdejess]

As usual I am after the big picture and the longer term.


Tell me, Explosion and Businessman, in the last eight years would you be able to tell us here: if we take 1000 double your money time depositors who had started their time deposits some seven to eight years earlier, how many of the 1000 depositors had made more money from their 20% interest time deposits.

If there are 501 depositors who made more money over 499, then you people here who love to make big, easy, safe money want to play this game because you have excess money to spare; then you can open many such accounts, because you stand to make more money than otherwise by 51% probability, so that over all you make more money than lose.

What about myself? First I still don't have excess money, second even if I have I would rather go into planting camote on a huge scale; because I believe camote is a most complete food and will be the solution to starvation of many families in our God-forsaken country -- besides camote is the easiest and toughest plant to cultivate, plus it is productive all year round.

And it is versatile, aside from the leaves which are also very rich in nutrients, for its peculiar musical potential per the posterior aperture of your anatomy.

We can or I will organize a concert of such camote eaters and we will tour the country, the whole world -- Believe it or not!


mdejess

[nailbiter]

I am not sure is he/she is a part of the group of Atty Arcilla, sorry if you’re not but you surely sound as if you are. Please stop trying to disguise that you are doing what you are doing because you care for the people, for the depositors because what is being done here  is plain and simple economic sabotage. One need not be a rocket scientist to realize that what is happening is an ugly Board fight between previous and current officers of the bank.  It is the ultimate goal of the group of the former owners to force the bank into bankruptcy. For whatever reasons, it is known only to them.

I don't think he's denying that he belongs to Arcilla's camp. From his own posts, he states that he belongs to the group that filed these complaints, though he does not clearly identify himself as we requested of him in a previous post. However, he denies representing Bulos and Saavedra and from what I've read in previous posts, these are separate camps. Tama ba? Unless there have been allusions already that they're connected, I must have missed that.

One of the surest way of finding out whether a 'daring bank marketing program' like the double your money program made by the legacy group of companies / rural bank of paranaque is viable or not, is to look at the credentials of the people behind them. A good tree will bear good fruit. A bad tree will bear rotten fruits.

...

With delos Angeles as head of the program, how can it succeed?

I agree. Surely these allegations may dissuade a good number of people from choosing to bank with these entities. I will not purport to ascertain what your motives are in your quest to expose delos Angeles and his criminal record, influence, and your belief to be his collusion with the bsp and the sec to allow his banking group certain liberties. However, you must note that several of those who've been responding to your posts are current depositors concerned on whether or not their monies, already in the hands of these banks, are safe. These people would understandably fear a bank run. That delos Angeles may be a questionable character is something you've already established, repeatedly. Can we now move on to other matters please?

where is the p8 billion worth of deposits that were collected by the bank, its affiliated rural banks nationwide, and BY THE AGENTS OF legacy group of companies THE LAST 5 years ?  The latest General Information Sheet at the sec shows that there is just about P2.8 billion deposits presently with the rbop? Where is the balance of about P 5 billion?  

How can the bank of pque fulfill its double your money program COMMITMENTS, when it has not been lending these funds to teachers and micro-financing projects as it has earlier represented to its depositors ?

How did celso delos angeles and his group obtained majority ownership and management of the bank in 1997 when there was no stock transfer ?

we want to confirm. Some of our complainants are stocklholders and employees of the bank. The rbop HAS NOT LEND ITS DEPOSITS TO TEACHERS or the like.

Do you have documented proof of all these allegations, apart from the word of these stockholders and employees? The deposits received, not engaging in lending activities? Can you post them here, furnish us a copy or direct us to the source? Also, sorry if this is a stupid question, anong ibig sabihin ng walang stock transfer sa acquisition ng Rural Bank of Parañaque? Does this mean delos Angeles is not the legal owner of RBP?

explosion, you missed a pending question:

the expiration of the life of the rbop  last April 25, 2007 was done deliberately, so that this bank can regened on its multi-billion COMMITMENTS under the double your money programS

Can you explain this further? How does the expiration directly relate to the bank withdrawing from its obligations to its depositors? This applies despite the eventual extension issued by both the bsp and the sec? And if it does, does this apply to deposits made before the expiration, during the interim, or deposits made after the extension was approved?

[nailbiter]

On Fake ctds

So what makes a ctd fake? If its not logged into the banks books then its fake?

back to rbp the very lease question now is

"How can you determine of the ctd issued by rbp is fake or not ?"

Guys, tila sinagot na niya ito in previous posts.

the only way that you can verify that your ctd is fake or not, especially if these were issued outside of bank premises, is by going to the bank itself that issued this and get an official certification from them that the ctd is indeed genuine.

If the ctd was issued inside the bank premises, and the depositor actually made his deposit inside the bank premises, 95-98%, this ctd is valid. The only exception is when a bank official gets the money, pockets it, and issues a ctd which is 'not booked'.  But this seldom happen. To be sure, get an official bank certification from the rural bank concerned that the ctd concerned is existing. Be sure that the bank branch manager signs this in your presence. One certification for every ctd.  Wala naman pong mawawala.

And this question:

Explosion, what's your advise for those who have deposited in rbop? (if the deposit is within the pdic coverage and the ctd is verified to be real naman). Kasi people cannot just hear one side and should know the issues and hear the two camps so that they will make the decision what to do with their placements.

richpulubi managed to get an answer to as well:

So, explosion, am I correct to assume that the non-renewal of rbp's corporate papers has no direct effect on investors who dealt directly with and in specific Legacy banks, since the chances of fake ctd's is slim. That, if ever there were bogus ctd's, that they could have been fabricated by unscrupulous agents, and not the banks directly. That, in the off chance that any of these banks close shop, as long as the deposits were made in the banks, pdic will honor the agreement. Long and short, you are not dissuading us from investing, whether there is funny business going on, as long as we deal with the banks directly, and run the risk of closure with pdic to fall back on.

Affirmative.

For as long as the ctd is made / issued in the bank, chances for it to be fake is slim. Worst case scenario, the pdic pays a maximum of  P250th of your exposure.

So explosion, as richpulubi has pointed out, said issuance of fake ctds may well be the work of unscrupulous agents or employees. While you question the credibility of cdla, is it your position then that these Legacy banks are not deliberately issuing bogus ctds? Can you clarify, as I asked in my pending question in the previous post, what you state is a deliberate move by rbp to allow its corporate life to expire as a means to renege on its obligations to its depositors?

[oishidu]

maraming factors bakit ako napaisip (mga opinyon ko lang po ito):
- may mga ibang sources of funds or loan vehicles na pwedeng utangan ang mga public school teachers na mas mura pa ang interest. kahit life insurance companies ay may special loan programs for teachers. malaking market ang public school teachers kaya talagang may mga special products ang mga malalaking kumpanya para sa market niche na ito. siguro naman ay uunahin na muna nila ang mga mas murang pautang na ito bago ang rural banks.

Please bear in mind that some rural banks are accreditted by decs to lend to their teachers for automatic deduction of loan payments from the teachers' salaries. Hence, payments are assured. That is why part of the question you have to ask the bank is whether they got accreditation from decs to evaluate if money lent is assured of payment thru autodeduction from salaries. That is why, for rural banks' not accreditted by decs require their AOs  to see the payslips of these teachers to verify how much is actually the net take home pay thus knowing how much the teacher can afford to pay. That is if wla ng ibang utang ang teacher na hindi auto deducted sa salary na. Dyan papasok ang good CI/BI that rural banks follow to ascertain if loan applicants have the high probability of paying thier loans.

- matindi ang admin work na required dito, considering na high volume transactions ito. from collection, payment recon, upload, monitoring of bad debts, etc. nagtataka ako kung paano naproprocess ng rbp ito sa branch offices nila. 'di naman ganun kadami ang back office staff nila ng magpunta ako. 'di rin naman masasabi na centralized sa isang main branch ang processing dahil 'localized' naman ang mga pautang nila 'di ba?

just sharing some of my thoughts...

Only one staff will be required to collect payment (actually not collection eh just follow up kasi me agreement na between decs and the bank for schedule of automatic deduction from salaries) once the rural bank or any lending institutions got the accreditation from decs and loan payments are deducted from the salaries of teachers kasi isa na lang ang contact person nung loan officer ng bangko that is ung treasurer ng school or district (whichever is applicable that process salaries and deductions). Also, collection is not done daily.  

[FutureGizmo]

Off-Topic: Bitster, please watch your language and be reminded that, as per our rules, "Defamatory, obscene, threatening, profane or hateful messages are not allowed." Discourse and arguments in the forum, no matter how heated the exchange may be, are tolerated but make sure the posts do not fall under the stated rule. Otherwise they will be edited or deleted. Please be advised.

This goes to everyone posting in this and other threads in the forum as well.

[nailbiter]

What is RE-discounting privileges? What is the implication if the Bangko Sentral ng Pilipinas is not extending this privilege to any bank?

From http://www.bsp.gov.ph/downloads/Publications/FAQs/rediscounting.pdf

What is rediscounting?
Rediscounting is a privilege of a qualified bank to obtain loans or
advances from the Bangko Sentral ng Pilipinas using the eligible papers
of its borrowers as collateral. It is a standing credit facility provided by the
bsp to help banks liquefy their position by refinancing the loans they
extend to their clients.

How does the rediscounting cycle go?
A bank extends loans to end-user borrowers. The end-user borrowers
execute promissory notes (PNs) in favor of the bank. The bank submits
the PNs of its end-user borrowers to the bsp—through the Department of
Loans and Credit (DLC) or the Regional Loans and Credit Unit (RLCU)—
for rediscounting by endorsing the same in favor of the bsp. The bsp, in
turn, lends the bank an amount equivalent to a certain percentage of the
face amount/outstanding balance of the end-user borrower’s PN. The
bank plows back the proceeds of the bsp loan into new loans to other
borrowers. In effect, the rediscounting cycle helps sustain the bank’s
funds for short-term lending.

What is the role of rediscounting in our monetary system?
Section 81 of Republic Act 7653, otherwise known as the New Central
Bank Act provides that the rediscounts, discounts, loans and advances
which bsp is authorized to extend to banking institutions, shall be used to
influence the volume of credit consistent with its objective of price stability.
During periods of inflation, the bsp shall refrain from extending credit to
banks. On the other hand, the bsp makes full use of the credit
operations authorized under its charter whenever there is a need to
expand money supply in our monetary system. Thus, rediscounting is
one of the monetary tools of the bsp to regulate the level of liquidity in the
system.

Di ko alam kung tama ang intindi ko but I think banks are supposed to file an application for rediscounting privileges.

One of the main income that a bank earns  from its operations comes from REdiscounting privileges, a mechanism granted by the bsp to all banks, except those that are delinquent, or with questionable credentials, or with queationable operations. We confirm. The rbop has been not been given re-discounting privileges by the bsp for the last 8 years at least.  Malakas lang talaga si celso delos angeles sa mga naka-upo. And he knows how to bribe his money around. Even if  only 5% of the anomalies  committed by the rbop has been committed by other rural banks in the Phils, this bank should have been closed a long time ago.

So rbp's credit application has been denied the last 8 years? What's the approval rate for rural banks? What is implied by cdla's influence in this regard? Are you saying rbp is an ineligible borrower yet the bsp still granted its loan? Or are you saying despite a bad credit record, rbp operates freely? Can you clearly list/state all the anomalies your group has uncovered?

[oishidu]

@ nailbiter: yes banks need to apply for the rediscounting line from BSP. Me bago ata sila rediscounting line specific for microfinance eh.  Please refer to this bsp circular for further reference on bsp rediscounting: http://www.bsp.gov.ph/regulations/regulations.asp?type=1&id=107