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Author Topic: Can we consider AFPSLAI as a Mutual Fund? 15-18% annually  (Read 15097 times)

Offline bauer

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Re: Can we consider AFPSLAI as a Mutual Fund? 15-18% annually
« Reply #15 on: Aug 27, 2012, 11:50 PM »
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  • AFPSLAI is in ICU.  bloodsuckers (moneysuckers).

    Investors are forewarned.
    join me on twitter @ bauerfilipino

    Offline theEdge

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    Re: Can we consider AFPSLAI as a Mutual Fund? 15-18% annually
    « Reply #16 on: Aug 27, 2012, 11:58 PM »
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  • reminder an interest rate way above the current rates should be dealt with caution, dont look only at the return on an investment  study the risk associated with an investment.i,ve heard countles stories of inflated rates of return to camouflauge the financial condition of the borrower in this case afpslai.beware of risk of default.

    Offline nobagger

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    Re: Can we consider AFPSLAI as a Mutual Fund? 15-18% annually
    « Reply #17 on: Aug 28, 2012, 01:18 AM »
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  • AFPSLAI is in ICU.  bloodsuckers (moneysuckers).

    Investors are forewarned.

    Ah-oh. Somebody's sourgraping just because he is not eligible for an easy 17-18% annual interest. Lol jk. I am an associate member myself and have been enjoying the interest for several years now.

    Anyway, AFPSLAI, like any other, is subject to risk. But their annual report and audited financial statement is available at their website. Here's the 2011 report at: http://www.afpslai.com.ph/2011%20ANNUAL%20REPORT.pdf

    Post Merge: Aug 28, 2012, 01:25 AM
    One strength of AFPSLAI of course is the sure collection. They always have the authority to auto-deduct from the salaries of soldiers and policemen, that's why there's no fail. Too much deposits will kill them of course, but they always create new rules to solve this problem, like right now, only max of P30,000 deposit each month for every member, and a max P3,000,000 for  regular members and P1,000,000 for associate members. If you have reached these limits, your interest is automatically transferred to a regular savings deposit account (lower interest, 3%?) or to a private bank account of your choosing.

    I myself worry, but I just remember the golden rule in investing, which is not to put all my eggs in one basket.
    « Last Edit: Aug 28, 2012, 01:29 AM by nobagger »

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    Re: Can we consider AFPSLAI as a Mutual Fund? 15-18% annually
    « Reply #17 on: Aug 28, 2012, 01:18 AM »


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    Offline mxherr5

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    Re: Can we consider AFPSLAI as a Mutual Fund? 15-18% annually
    « Reply #18 on: Aug 28, 2012, 01:26 AM »
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  • @ bauer, oh?
    I thought AFPSLAI is clean..
    Mauuna bumagsak ang AMWSLAI kaysa sa AFPSLAI.

    My FIL only has good things to say about AFPSALI
    Bad things about AMWSLAI lol

    Offline bauer

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    Re: Can we consider AFPSLAI as a Mutual Fund? 15-18% annually
    « Reply #19 on: Aug 28, 2012, 01:44 PM »
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  • our AFP pension funds and loan associations (whatever their name), is a pain in the ***SS financially.  kaya lang nag survive due to continuing bailout by our national government (gusto ba natin ng military revolt pag tumigil ang pension nila?)

    ask DOF and there's a lot of stories to be told.

    Post Merge: Aug 28, 2012, 01:46 PM
    Ah-oh. Somebody's sourgraping just because he is not eligible for an easy 17-18% annual interest. Lol jk. I am an associate member myself and have been enjoying the interest for several years now.
     

    Sad to say, it's difficult for me to sourgrape.  My returns averages 20% per annum, so your AFPSLAI falls below my requirement. 
    « Last Edit: Aug 28, 2012, 01:46 PM by bauer »
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    Offline nobagger

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    Re: Can we consider AFPSLAI as a Mutual Fund? 15-18% annually
    « Reply #20 on: Aug 28, 2012, 08:23 PM »
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  • our AFP pension funds and loan associations (whatever their name), is a pain in the ***SS financially.  kaya lang nag survive due to continuing bailout by our national government (gusto ba natin ng military revolt pag tumigil ang pension nila?)

    ask DOF and there's a lot of stories to be told.

    AFP pension funds and loan associations are different from each other, so you can't lump them together. Yes I've heard of the problem with the AFP pension funds, especifically the incoming crisis in which the government will not be able to support it anymore. And yes it is a pain in the ass financially as fas as our government is concerned, but aren't pension systems in general? And the main point is, it is not like the loan associations which you lumped it with. The loan associations get their capital from their members, not from the government, and are actually generating income.

    Now, as to using the term bailout. The government issuing pension is not called bailout, so I assume you're referring to the loan associations when you used it? Umm, so far AMWSLAI is the one I've heard of that had problems and I don't recall bailout by the government as the solution that was made. So can you elaborate more about this bailout thing? What loan association was bailed out in the past?

    And again, all of these do not pertain to AFPSLAI and its performance. Admittedly though, when the pension system will be modified in the future, AFPSLAI will certainly be affected as a lot of the pensions are deposited directly in their system and their pension is the reason why retired military men are able to get a loan from them. So we'll see.
    « Last Edit: Aug 28, 2012, 10:56 PM by nobagger »

    Offline bauer

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    Re: Can we consider AFPSLAI as a Mutual Fund? 15-18% annually
    « Reply #21 on: Aug 28, 2012, 10:32 PM »
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  • ^ bailout means government is injecting more funds to keep the company from bankruptcy.
    join me on twitter @ bauerfilipino

    Offline nanashi

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    Re: Can we consider AFPSLAI as a Mutual Fund? 15-18% annually
    « Reply #22 on: Aug 28, 2012, 10:48 PM »
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  • I think AFP pension on their personnel and AFPSLAI is two different animal. One is a government obligation to military personnel when they retired why AFPSLAI is a co-op bank for military personnel where they can open savings account and borrow money.  Loan transaction are automatic salary deduction to those who borrow with a co-borrowers if s/he decide to AWOL. Plus they don't allow high loan amount if account holders does not have significant Capital account invested in AFPSLAI. it's like MESALA for MERALCO and Lopez Group of companies personnel.
    « Last Edit: Aug 28, 2012, 10:50 PM by nanashi »

    Offline nobagger

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    Re: Can we consider AFPSLAI as a Mutual Fund? 15-18% annually
    « Reply #23 on: Aug 28, 2012, 10:53 PM »
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  • ^ bailout means government is injecting more funds to keep the company from bankruptcy.

    Exactly, I wasn't asking for the meaning of bailout when I told you to elaborate. I was asking you what loan associations were bailed out in the past

    Post Merge: Aug 28, 2012, 10:57 PM
    I think AFP pension on their personnel and AFPSLAI is two different animal. One is a government obligation to military personnel when they retired why AFPSLAI is a co-op bank for military personnel where they can open savings account and borrow money.  Loan transaction are automatic salary deduction to those who borrow with a co-borrowers if s/he decide to AWOL. Plus they don't allow high loan amount if account holders does not have significant Capital account invested in AFPSLAI. it's like MESALA for MERALCO and Lopez Group of companies personnel.

    sakto
    « Last Edit: Aug 28, 2012, 10:57 PM by nobagger »

    Offline bauer

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    Re: Can we consider AFPSLAI as a Mutual Fund? 15-18% annually
    « Reply #24 on: Aug 30, 2012, 01:11 AM »
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  •  For public information of my assessment,

    please refer to Senate Economic Planning Office report prepared last January 2012 explaining the summary of the AFP pension system (reference code AG-12-01).  As much as i would like to post the actual 2 page summary report with charts and computation of pension fund, I could not copy it from the adobe reader pdf file and paste it here in the pmt comment post.

    basically, what our senate report is saying that come 2017, the cost of pensions will outstrip the salaries of all active personnel.  

    accordingly, during 2005, the pension payment was 9.7 billion pesos BUT by 2011, the pension payment ballooned to 24.1 billion pesos.

    What does it mean for a company like AFPSLAI?

    If the government runs out of funds by 2017 (4 years away from now) there is a major risks that the source of revenues of AFPSLAI will run dry.  paano na ang mga investors?

    kaya ko naman nasabi na 'bailout', kasi matagal na nag-aabono ang national government para bayaran ang mga pensioners hindi sukat akalain kasi ng national government na sobrang lumobo ang bayarin.

    ang AFPSLAI at iba pang financing company na nakatutok sa isang sektor (military at police) para pagkunan ng kanilang income eh masyadong mataas ang risk profile kasi nga may problema ngayon ang ating gobyerno sa pagkukunan ng pondo para sa pension payments.

    ang senate report na ito ang nagpapatunay na lubhang malaki ang problema ng AFP pension system at hanggang ngayon ay walang solusyon ang gobyerno kaya malaking sugal sa mga investors ang paglagak ng pondo sa mga kumpanya na ang kliyente ay ang ating military/police personnel.

    Sana malinaw ko na naipaliwanag ang aking maikling kumento.

    Post Merge: Aug 30, 2012, 01:21 AM
    It is my aim not to be too technical in using words.  I also tried as much as i can to avoid being to legalistic and formal in making an assessment that affects the well-being of filipino savers and investors.

    I am sharing my thoughts and opinions geared towards the protection and safety of the funds of all filipino investors and savers because our present system is too vague, complex, and complicated that even a person with a graduate degree finds very hard to understand (myself included).

    to nobagger, I do not intend to define 'bailout' for you as i very well know that you understand it.

    to nanashi, i am fully aware of the difference between a financing company such as AFPSLAI and AFP pension.

    my mistake was not to fully explain my thoughts clearly so that my opinion is well understood (it is not necessary to be agreeable to all readers).

    I rest my case.
    « Last Edit: Aug 30, 2012, 01:22 AM by bauer »
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    Offline nobagger

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    Re: Can we consider AFPSLAI as a Mutual Fund? 15-18% annually
    « Reply #25 on: Aug 30, 2012, 01:11 PM »
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  • Thanks bauer, you made good points. However, it still did not justify your statement that AFPSLAI is in ICU :). That is misleading. Mas tama pa kung sinabi mong AFPSLAI is going to be in ICU (future tense) because of the said pending pension crisis. However, that statement is also a speculation that is not based on the current performance of AFPLAI. Although your basis of impending doom is very real and is something that I am very much aware of, as I mentioned (tatay ko kasi nagpe-pension din hehe).


    The government has everything in its disposal to mitigate the said incoming crisis, such as reducing the pension of military men, or increasing its income to meet its obligation, or shifting its funds around. I just hope that they indeed will not sit on their ass and wait for this to hit us. Bottomline is, the AFP pension crisis is not a sure event that will cause AFPSLAI to go to ICU because we have people working in the government that has the power to do something to prevent it.


    If the government runs out of funds by 2017 (I'm assuming you mean just funds for the AFP pension system, and assuming this will indeed become real), then like I said, AFPSLAI will be surely affected. But of course its source of revenues will not run dry, dahil nandun pa rin iyung mga active military and police men as their source of capital and income. Now as to how large the pie for the pensioners is, yun ang di ako sure.

    Quote
    ang AFPSLAI at iba pang financing company na nakatutok sa isang sektor (military at police) para pagkunan ng kanilang income eh masyadong mataas ang risk profile kasi nga may problema ngayon ang ating gobyerno sa pagkukunan ng pondo para sa pension payments.

    ang senate report na ito ang nagpapatunay na lubhang malaki ang problema ng AFP pension system at hanggang ngayon ay walang solusyon ang gobyerno kaya malaking sugal sa mga investors ang paglagak ng pondo sa mga kumpanya na ang kliyente ay ang ating military/police personnel.

    Good points but like I said, pensioners  are not the main source of income/capital of AFPSLAI. Also, the government will not stop paying the current military pensioners because like you said, there will be protests. (To be fair, stopping the pension of other government employees will also garner protests, not just the military men). So removing it is not an option. They can reduce their pension, sure. But that means the income from pensioners is just reduced, not gone.

    Now, as to the future pensioners, the government may also reduce theirs as a long term solution, but they surely will not remove it entirely, that's for sure. Otherwise, less people will be encouraged to join the army. So wala pa rin, buhay pa rin ang pension, and hence buhay pa rin ang AFPLAI, although reduced income.

    Also, the AFPSLAI management are not dummies. They know how to bend in times of crisis. Halimbawa na lang, eh yung ginawa nila yung rules na maximum limits for depositors at yung 30,000 monthly deposit limit.

    Pagkakaalam ko, nung panahon ni Marcos mas ginandahan niya ang benefits ng mga sundalo including higher income and higher and better pension, para mas ma-encourage na maraming pumasok. Lately though, parang mas malaki or pantay na ata ang pension ng mga other government employees kasi me kilala ako na me high position sa DTI eh 50,000 ang magiging pension niya. So baka ngayon pati pension ng other government employees eh po-problemahin na rin ng gobyerno natin balang araw.

    To sum it up, AFPSLAI, I believe is healthy right now. But do not put all your eggs in one basket and you will sleep soundly at night, just like I do. Now keep em 17%-18% annual interest coming! :)
    « Last Edit: Aug 30, 2012, 01:13 PM by nobagger »

    Offline theEdge

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    Re: Can we consider AFPSLAI as a Mutual Fund? 15-18% annually
    « Reply #26 on: Sep 02, 2012, 12:03 PM »
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  • ang tanong dito where do afpslai invest those funds to make a return higher than those 17-18% they give to afpslai investors.remember that high returns corresponds to high risk invesments.besides ,these kind of returns are not sustainable in the long run. caveat! not even stocks which is high risk doesnt even make 18% annually for long term,much more debt investments ,with a low interest rates environment nowadays i'm skeptical about their returns.

    Offline pmtmember

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    Re: Can we consider AFPSLAI as a Mutual Fund? 15-18% annually
    « Reply #27 on: Sep 02, 2012, 04:49 PM »
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  • I like AFPSLAI kaya lang hindi ako pwede maging member. Good luck to the members of AFPSLAI. With regards to the question of TS, para sa akin kuha ka pa rin ng mutual fund para naman ma diversify mo yong investment mo. Investment ito at we all know may kasamang risk yan.
    Take risks: if you win, you will be happy; if you lose, you will be wise. Trader's Logbook

    Offline mxherr5

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    Re: Can we consider AFPSLAI as a Mutual Fund? 15-18% annually
    « Reply #28 on: Sep 04, 2012, 01:54 AM »
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  • @the Edge,

    How do you define long term sir?
    AFPSLAI has been in operation since 1972 as per their website.

    Also as evident by their very name, i.e. SLA (Savings and Loan Association)
    Majority of their funds are lent out as loans.
    They have an audited annual report. I think the one for year 2011 is already out.

    Their site shows that interest rates do not reach 17-18% though.
    I can only imagine that there are a lot of members who do not pay
    on time and incur late charges, etc?

    Afterall, that 17-18% figure is a dividend so if they earn a lot on
    late charges and fees, it would still trickle down to every member.

    Offline bauer

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    Re: Can we consider AFPSLAI as a Mutual Fund? 15-18% annually
    « Reply #29 on: Sep 04, 2012, 01:08 PM »
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  • ang mga signs na delikado ang isang kumpanya sa pilipinas,

    magbigay ng interest rates HIGHER than the market to entice investors. we have so many examples na bigla na lang nagsara.

    we simply never learn.  The game is still the same, only the players changes.

    i have learned my lessons once even if my losses is a trickle. twice is too much.
    join me on twitter @ bauerfilipino

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    Re: Can we consider AFPSLAI as a Mutual Fund? 15-18% annually
    « Reply #29 on: Sep 04, 2012, 01:08 PM »
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